Episode 219: I Need to Know What is Real with Beth Hinze

Meagan Skidmore (00:01.538)

Hey everyone, welcome to today’s episode of Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt podcast. You know, I have been on this journey for a while now. Like I can count on two hands, how many years? And it’s kind of this point in my life when my faith journey, I call it took a pivot. It’s kind of before that moment. And then there’s life after that moment. Kind of like,

 

the pandemic. We tend to talk about life prior to the pandemic and then post-pandemic. And so there are friends that are kind of pre-faith journey, pivot in my faith journey, and then those that I have met and been able to call my friends and cultivate relationships with post taking that pivot in my faith journey. And Beth Hines, you are one of them and I’m grateful for you.

 

And even though we don’t live in the same town or get to see each other super often, there’s just people that you know you connect with on a heart level, a soul level, that you can trust to share things with. And so I thank you for that. And I’m really grateful that you accepted my invitation to come on and share your story. So welcome. How’s that for an intro?

 

Beth Hinze (01:26.057)

Me and thank you. you’re so awesome. You’re so sweet. I feel the same way about you. Thank you. I appreciate it so much. We never realize who we’re gonna meet through some of this, right? And we’re always afraid but the reality is so much, so much good.

 

Meagan Skidmore (01:34.862)

I’m

 

Meagan Skidmore (01:38.786)

Yes. Yes.

 

Yeah.

 

For sure. Yeah, when we met, I don’t know what you call it. I’ll just call it, your faith journey had, I guess we could say pivoted multiple times when we first met. And you weren’t really in the thick of it. And like you said, you brought up that word fear. think I had mad respect and love for you. And there was this part of me that was like, yeah, I was afraid. Like, what does that mean?

 

Beth Hinze (01:57.253)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (02:14.035)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (02:16.278)

if I were to see my path reflected in yours in some way. it was, that’s what when you grow up in a very high demand.

 

conservative faith background it can condition your thoughts, your wiring and when you have layers of trauma on top of that it can get complicated thankfully I’m in a different place

 

Beth Hinze (02:43.423)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s it is so crazy how like, when you are brought up in a conservative faith background. One of the things that you and I both went through is just being told repeatedly to never leave and the fear we’re taught if you go.

 

Meagan Skidmore (02:50.072)

So.

 

Meagan Skidmore (03:07.939)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (03:12.595)

Like that is, I think it’s one of the things that keeps so many people from even stopping to ask, like what else could there be for me or what else is out there? It’s like you can’t even entertain it. It’s too scary.

 

Meagan Skidmore (03:29.43)

Yeah, I would agree with that. So let’s rewind a little bit. If you don’t mind, can you share a little bit about your background with our listeners, including, you know, your upbringing, your family, what that was like, you know, include elements of your family now, your, your faith of origin, and I guess the things that have really

 

Beth Hinze (03:34.228)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (03:57.612)

are kind of the milestones or the key moments of your journey, of your path.

 

Beth Hinze (04:03.752)

Yeah. And as I tell you this, if you have like a question about it, you can stop me at any point. Yeah, because I will. I will just talk. Well, yeah. So I’m Beth Hines and I am the middle daughter of two converts to the LDS, the Mormon religion. My parents.

 

Meagan Skidmore (04:09.72)

Yeah, I will jump right in. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (04:15.118)

That’s good. Talking is good.

 

Meagan Skidmore (04:31.864)

So convert means they weren’t born in it.

 

Beth Hinze (04:34.502)

Yeah, neither one of them were born into the LDS religion. my mom, both my parents grew up religious ish, right. But my mom, when I was, she got baptized the year I was born into the Mormon church. But initially, what had happened is that my biological father

 

Meagan Skidmore (04:47.192)

Okay.

 

Beth Hinze (05:03.464)

brought the missionaries home, the Mormon missionaries home after work one day and my mom went in the other room. She’s like, I don’t want to have anything to do with this. long story short, she ended up being the one who joined the LDS church and he did not and he never did. And eventually they divorced for lots of reasons and she raised us.

 

Meagan Skidmore (05:32.066)

Okay.

 

Beth Hinze (05:32.519)

in the LDS church. And when she remarried, who we call our dad, who, you know, technically would be our stepdad, he adopted us. And then we were sealed into the Mormon church as a family. So we call him our dad, he also raised us and he joined the LDS church separately. And then they were eventually set up on a blind date as the only two.

 

Mormons that this particular friend had. So that’s why they were set up on a date initially, but then, yeah, yeah. So I have sisters and brothers and it’s a whole long family tree that would take a lot of, you know, looking at staring at and quizzes, but yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so just

 

Meagan Skidmore (06:08.718)

Okay.

 

Meagan Skidmore (06:19.886)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (06:23.384)

There’s his, hers, ours, theirs, yours, mine.

 

Beth Hinze (06:30.376)

just know that I have, I am the only sibling of my family of origin who has left the LDS church, but I was brought up, raised, I went to every camp that you could go to as a teenager. I went to,

 

My dad’s job moved us from the University of Texas. I’m from Austin. I live in Austin We moved from the University of Texas his job to the University of Utah when I was in high school So we I finished high school in Salt Lake City. And so in high school I finished around a lot of LDS people went on to Rick’s College Which is now BYU, Idaho and then transferred to BYU for my last two years of school so

 

Meagan Skidmore (07:22.434)

I love that you went to Rick’s College and that you still, you call it that.

 

Beth Hinze (07:24.59)

I know I Rick was it was so fun. It was so much fun. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (07:30.284)

I just, that just means we’re of the same generation, because that’s what it called. Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (07:32.787)

Yeah. People all they’ll say, you mean, BYUI? I’m like, no, no, because that’s a four year school. Ricks was a two year school. And I went to Ricks. Yeah. I’m not quite sure why I did that necessarily, because it was so cold. It was so cold. And my best friend went to school in Hawaii. And I’m like, what? Why did I what? But anyway, it was really fun. But then I eventually married.

 

Meagan Skidmore (07:40.054)

Mm-hmm, yeah, was very different.

 

Meagan Skidmore (07:49.262)

Yeah, I’ve heard.

 

Beth Hinze (08:02.45)

someone from Salt Lake City and a lot of even choosing who I married. All of that came from a place of a lot of this religious programming. Like I made the choice myself, but I think there’s some parts of it that are really tricky that had I

 

had I had I a lot of stuff knew that it was okay knew that I could graduate from BYU without a

 

MRS degree. I think I would have made some different choices, but that some of that fear had come in. Anyway, we were married for 18 years and we were married in the LDS Salt Lake City temple. We have three boys. And my oldest is 21. And I have a 16 year old boy. I don’t know why that just

 

Meagan Skidmore (09:02.638)

Okay.

 

Beth Hinze (09:15.038)

touches me. just love my kids so much. But and then I have a 12 year old boy. He’s a seventh grader. He’s in high school or middle school. And and then I’m now remarried. We I we divorced. Gosh, seven or eight years ago. And I remarried.

 

Meagan Skidmore (09:18.606)

You’re a mom.

 

Beth Hinze (09:42.311)

And my husband has four adult children. So I have four bonus kiddos, bonus in-laws, two grand babies. Yeah. So it’s a big happy family. But it is, you know, my faith journey happened in between all of that.

 

Meagan Skidmore (09:52.256)

Wow.

 

Meagan Skidmore (10:04.142)

Can you kind of pinpoint the time when you started to, you saw a loose thread and maybe you put off tugging on that loose thread knowing that it could unravel, but when can you recall that you started to realize you had some questions? Things weren’t matching up for you. You had some doubts perhaps.

 

Beth Hinze (10:15.379)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (10:22.771)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (10:31.678)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, I think there’s always those little things that in the beginning that even when you’re a kid, you’re like, what? I remember playing with friends and saying things and, you know, just about my own religion and church and thinking, you know, I’m Christian. And them having a totally different experience at church and thinking, wait, you all don’t do this exact same thing as I do at church.

 

Meagan Skidmore (10:49.091)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (11:00.014)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (11:00.966)

And even my own like grandparents, aunts and uncles, and a few one liners that would come from different family experiences, it would always make me go, huh? Right? Because it’s supposed to be church, it’s supposed to be God, Jesus, you know, universal love. And so that always kind of felt weird to me. But yeah, but I specifically remember

 

Meagan Skidmore (11:22.958)

Yeah, can be confusing if you’re a kid.

 

Beth Hinze (11:30.17)

in the moving truck when we moved from Austin to Salt Lake City. My mom and I were driving. We had two moving trucks and then my high school sister, drove with a car. And so my mom and I were in one of the moving trucks. And I remember specifically asking her, what ever happened to Emma Smith? And I had just gone on a whole like trip to see all of the church sites with a bunch of other teenagers.

 

Meagan Skidmore (11:59.439)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (11:59.805)

And I realized that they stopped talking about her after a while. And my mom just kind of…

 

She kind of just had a way of answering it like, well, you know, she went through a lot and she faced a lot of hard things. And I think my mom said, and I will always love and respect her.

 

Meagan Skidmore (12:25.368)

Good for your mom.

 

Beth Hinze (12:25.372)

And I thought, yeah, true, but I think it didn’t answer my question. And it made me think, what did I just ask that I wasn’t supposed to ask?

 

Meagan Skidmore (12:31.788)

Yeah. True.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (12:38.91)

Like that’s there wasn’t an answer to the question. And so there were times where that kind of thing happened. And as little things would happen like that, like we would come to church on Easter and the people who were assigned to give the talks or the speeches during, you know, the big service, they would talk about

 

Meagan Skidmore (12:47.31)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (13:04.43)

service.

 

Beth Hinze (13:09.638)

missionary work or Joseph Smith, or, you know, anything but actual Easter. And Christmas, we would go in to have a Christmas lesson. And they were like, Nope, we’re talking about Joseph Smith’s brother Hiram Smith today. And it would start to really get to me. And so I remember I was asked to give a talk on Easter. And I was so excited, because I’m like, they will finally have an actual Easter message.

 

And that morning I got a call saying, actually we’re going to have a high councilman, a special speaker come in and speak. And these speakers are kind of known for just kind of droning on and on.

 

Meagan Skidmore (13:55.918)

So you didn’t get to speak?

 

Beth Hinze (13:57.621)

I actually gave that exact talk the next week. I’m like, you know what, I wrote this for Easter, so I’m gonna give it. And so I said, we just celebrated Easter, and then I went in onto the thing, yeah. But if you.

 

Meagan Skidmore (14:02.318)

Okay. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (14:07.788)

Yeah. How old were you, would you say, when this happened? Teens?

 

Beth Hinze (14:13.716)

My oldest necklace was four. So yeah, this was 2008. Yeah. So what is that 17 years ago? Holy cow. Yeah. Yeah. So then slowly I started to notice also this Exodus of like really good friends who were leaving the church and it was shocking to me and I’m like, what is happening?

 

Meagan Skidmore (14:17.795)

okay.

 

Young marriage. Okay.

 

Meagan Skidmore (14:25.582)

Something like that, yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (14:39.437)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (14:41.352)

And so people just started leaving and I had so many questions, but I was like, I’m not touching that. So I just stayed friends with them, but we wouldn’t talk religion. But then more and more kept leaving. And I thought to myself, what is actually happening here? And this is before the time, like, I don’t know about you, but to me right now, it kind of feels.

 

Not to be disrespectful, but there seems to be a trendiness to it, to leaving the church. For some, not for everyone.

 

Meagan Skidmore (15:13.966)

I think we just have access to so much information in real time and whoever is out there willing to share their story and sometimes not. I think we’re just more exposed and aware.

 

Beth Hinze (15:33.128)

Yeah, I totally agree. When I started to have questions, that wasn’t a thing. It wasn’t anywhere. It was very, very quiet.

 

Meagan Skidmore (15:40.545)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, because at the time you gave that talk in 2008, I remember I joined Facebook around that time, 2007 or 2008. Like, it was hitting our generation, I think, finally by that time. I mean, it had been around, but usually I think it was among college students.

 

Beth Hinze (15:50.238)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (15:54.276)

Mm-hmm, yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (15:59.495)

Right, yeah. And so there wasn’t any kind of conversation. You didn’t mention any of it. And a couple of years went by while I watched Friends leave. And eventually what happened is it was 2013-ish.

 

Meagan Skidmore (16:01.89)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (16:06.435)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (16:12.066)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (16:20.692)

because I had just had a baby and one more set of friends left. And this set was a big deal and also foreshadowing. Spoiler alert, I ended up marrying one of those big friends. Yeah, that’s my husband. But their family left the church too and I thought, is happening?

 

Meagan Skidmore (16:26.626)

Okay.

 

Meagan Skidmore (16:40.572)

okay, okay.

 

Beth Hinze (16:53.764)

As I was, remember one day scrolling on Facebook and one of my friends who had left, she actually posted something and she said something along the lines of, this explains how I feel in a way that I would never be able to articulate. And she, she linked a blog post and I went and read this blog post from another woman who had gone through a faith transition through the Mormon church.

 

And when I read that blog post and she kind of explained why she left and lot of the things that were a problem for her, there were things in that blog post that I had never known. And I had been a member of the church my entire life.

 

And I walked away from that so angry that my entire life I had…

 

If what was in this blog post was true, I had defended. And I was so mad that I was never told it. And I was so mad that I was never…

 

Beth Hinze (17:57.811)

I don’t know, I felt dumb, I felt stupid, I felt embarrassed, I felt blindsided, I felt lied to. And so I decided to check, fact check this blog post. And so I did that with different books from the LDS bookstores. Like they always tell you to check the sources and only use LDS people and.

 

Meagan Skidmore (18:02.52)

you

 

Meagan Skidmore (18:12.419)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (18:25.62)

So I started to go to some of my friends who had left to say, I need you to help me understand what is happening. And are these things true that I just read? And I had one very, very kind friend who said to me,

 

If I genuinely answer these questions for you, you’ve got to understand that this might actually take you somewhere you don’t want to go. This might actually, there’s no turning back from this. And I told her, I need to know what’s real. And so we sat down and had lots of long conversations. That’s kind of where the threads started.

 

Meagan Skidmore (18:59.47)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (19:08.056)

What you said is really powerful, Beth. I need to know what’s real. I think for me, more than, I never really have called this a faith crisis, but I did experience what I call a trust crisis. I relate to a lot of what you just said about those feelings of betrayal, of hurt, of…

 

Beth Hinze (19:14.579)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (19:24.998)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (19:37.689)

feeling like, wow, I’ve given all of my life and been what I hoped was, know, a obedient, faithful member, right? And by the way, I’m still that. But I define what all that means to me now. But.

 

Yeah, that part of it is very real. I’m curious, you know, I think I experienced anger too. I’m still angry about some things. But I think that often is the first emotion that we feel and there’s more below that.

 

Beth Hinze (20:16.02)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (20:27.972)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (20:29.534)

It’s deeper. And I think maybe that’s where the hurt, the pain, the betrayal is found. Our initial reaction is often anger. And that it’s totally a valid feeling and a valid response. we need to, we’re going to have to give ourselves the permission to feel that. At least that’s what I have found because it’s, we’re not going to get it outside of ourselves.

 

Beth Hinze (20:42.792)

Yeah, for sure.

 

Beth Hinze (20:59.444)

No, yeah, 100%. And when you feel that anger, it’s like…

 

I think what’s hard about it is you kind of feel mad that you were duped, like you said, the trust. But also, what also was made me mad, I think, too, is when I then would ask about some of these things that I read about. That that’s when gaslighting started of, well, I’ve known this. How do you not know it? Well, I’ve already heard all this.

 

Meagan Skidmore (21:33.742)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (21:37.804)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (21:39.986)

and it doesn’t bother me is the things I would hear people say. And so I think the anger would continue. It’d make me mad that I’m not being heard or mad that I’m being gaslit. So that would continue.

 

Meagan Skidmore (21:50.702)

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

For those that maybe are not as familiar or maybe even newer to this space, can you tell us more? I know what you mean when you say, then the gaslighting began. Can you even share a time that you remember? You can keep it sterilized. You don’t have to say names or anything, you know. But tell us a little bit more about that and why it’s so harmful.

 

Beth Hinze (22:06.13)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (22:14.654)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (22:23.24)

Yeah, I think the way that the LDS Church is set up is that we have been conditioned to go and find all the answers through two people, the prophet of the church, the head of the church, and God.

 

Meagan Skidmore (22:45.368)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (22:49.812)

And the prophet speaks for God. So whatever he says, we’ve been conditioned that he tells us what’s up. And if we don’t agree with what he says, then we are told to pray until and get a confirmation that what he says is true. So there’s this confirmation bias, right? So when we come up with our own thoughts, our own conclusions, and they don’t line up with the

 

Meagan Skidmore (23:11.662)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (23:19.59)

current leader of the church because these guys don’t stay around forever. They die. And it’s it kind of is really whoever is leading they get to decide what we all believe now. Most of it doesn’t really like change, but it’s depending on who the leader is kind of also determine some of the stuff that we ways we do stuff and things that we believe. And so

 

Meagan Skidmore (23:24.366)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (23:44.142)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (23:48.837)

Knowing that, you know, whatever it is he says goes, if I come up with a totally different thing, then now I’m supposed to turn around and pray and make sure that my beliefs line up with his and if they don’t, that’s my problem, my fault. I’m wrong. And we aren’t we aren’t encouraged to listen to our own authority.

 

Meagan Skidmore (24:05.304)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (24:14.211)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (24:14.462)

We’re not encouraged to listen to our own intuition. We’re encouraged to listen to the Prophet. And as an extension of that,

 

even in our own homes, our husbands are the ones who are the head. And so they are the ones that lead the family. They look to the prophet. And so if what I’m saying doesn’t match up and I’m praying and it is not agreeing and I go to my own husband to say this isn’t agreeing and I and it doesn’t match up and I am I feel totally different.

 

he will side in many times side with the prophet and will, you know, tell me how well, at in my experience, would my previous husband was like, No, you’re wrong, because I already knew all this. Yeah, yeah. And even to the point where when I explained to him, I am praying.

 

Meagan Skidmore (25:11.246)

Yeah, your voice was swallowed up in his. Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (25:25.576)

to find out if this is real. I know that I am correct on this. I know. And he actually told me, you’re doing it wrong. You’re actually praying wrong. Which is frustrating because I know I’m not wrong. I know I’m not praying wrong. I’m doing it the same way I’ve always done it. And just because it’s not the same as the prophet, it’s not the same as my husband doesn’t mean it’s not the same as God.

 

Meagan Skidmore (25:42.808)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (25:53.134)

Yeah.

 

I believe that’s a necessary part of our journey that being in that space of, you know, you’re getting, I grew up calling it personal revelation. I now call it a variety of things, intuition and inner knowing and inner voice, divine downloads, channeling, right? Knowing that you are receiving that and yet it is.

 

Beth Hinze (25:58.42)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (26:08.766)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (26:16.966)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (26:25.216)

in conflict with what you had been taught or something that’s right there or someone that’s right there in front of you. And even though you know inside you have that inner knowing, that inner voice, actually claiming it and acting on it and doing something about it, that’s a whole nother thing. And I think it’s unique to women and I’m going to include

 

marginalized voices with that people of color and the queer community because it’s not the dominant voice and so that takes a lot of growth it takes a lot of we’ll just say stepping into your brave courageous self for me what really ignited that what spurred that on was learning that my kiddo was queer it’s been six plus years and

 

Beth Hinze (27:02.366)

Right.

 

Beth Hinze (27:20.436)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (27:23.902)

You know, so I think a lot of people are going to have that moment where they had that their reason, they had that deep, solid, grounding moment that they needed to claim that voice and they needed to do something about it, you know, whether that just means having a conversation one on one or.

 

Beth Hinze (27:41.79)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (27:49.719)

in a group or whatever, right? That’s going to be different. You don’t need to get in front of the pulpit necessarily and say, in order to… Yeah, right. Claiming your voice is going to look differently for everybody and all ways are valid. Even if it’s writing it in your journal.

 

Beth Hinze (27:57.749)

No, I never went on Facebook and announced I’m leaving. I’ve… No.

 

Beth Hinze (28:08.178)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, even I remember telling my previous husband, I have questions and concerns. And so we actually came to a compromise of things that I would still do and things I would no longer do in relation to church and church activity and that kind of thing.

 

Meagan Skidmore (28:18.563)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (28:32.396)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (28:37.084)

And so that continued for a while until I needed to re-compromise or re-decide or reconfigure it. And it was like turning off a faucet really, just less and less.

 

Meagan Skidmore (28:45.623)

No.

 

Meagan Skidmore (28:49.23)

So would you say that was the point where you really claimed your voice or when was that point or perhaps it was more than one?

 

Beth Hinze (28:58.13)

Yeah, I think for me, I’m one of those people that when you get into a swimming pool, I kind of wade in there. I go slow. Don’t push me. I tell my boys. Yeah. And I live in Texas, right? So I’m like, don’t push me. My my kiddos know like once mom’s in, it’s okay. But if you splash her or get her in, she’s she’s, I don’t know, I’ve always been really, really cold nature, like really cold inside and my hands are always cold.

 

Meagan Skidmore (29:06.894)

No matter how warm or cold you just…

 

Beth Hinze (29:26.952)

And so I have to get used to the temperature. I don’t dive in deep to anything quickly. Same with the church. I knew that what I was learning and unlearning was not gonna be an overnight thing. And so I had to slowly build a different testimony. And it took…

 

four or five years where I got solid in my own foundation of what I knew, what I believed, and who I felt I could talk to and tell and trust to tell. And so in the beginning when I felt safe enough, I only really told the people who I knew that had already left. oddly enough,

 

We were at a lunch one day, my previous husband and I. We were friends with my now husband, Josh, and his family. And we were at this lunch. My husband said, I’m going to lunch with Josh. You want to come? And I was like, yeah, that’d be so fun. We brought our new baby, who’s now 11, 12. He’s 12. And we came to lunch. And Josh and his family had just left the church.

 

my previous husband was talking to him about it. And Josh was sharing openly like, here’s what I know, here’s what I believe. And here are the things that kind of are hard for me. And as he was saying that I had not had the courage to really share with my then husband. But listening to Josh share

 

Meagan Skidmore (31:17.229)

Okay.

 

you

 

Beth Hinze (31:20.648)

I felt safe enough to start asking questions to him in front of my previous husband. And the conversation shifted from the two of them talking to now Josh and I talking about my questions, about some of my concerns. They were very light. I tried to keep them as light as possible for the lunch conversation to not scare my husband. But because I felt safe enough to ask these questions,

 

Meagan Skidmore (31:26.776)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (31:49.779)

with a buffer, which is still so funny to me. I felt safe enough to ride home that day after that lunch and openly share with my husband, I have these concerns. And what’s funny about that, or interesting is that it’s a very big part of our relationship now, mine and Josh’s is safety, lots of safety, lots of I feel safe to say I feel safe to do. And so I…

 

Meagan Skidmore (31:50.862)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (32:18.702)

so important in our relationships, regardless of whether the topic is faith or religion. Yeah, safety is paramount. So obviously that began a cultivation of you learning how and when you were safe and how to create more safety for yourself and introduce it into your spaces because I know you’re in a different place now.

 

Beth Hinze (32:20.294)

Yeah. Whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (32:38.824)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (32:45.129)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (32:49.368)

your faith journey probably looks different than maybe a much younger version of Beth would have ever imagined. tell us, I purposely changed, adjusted the title of my podcast at beginning of this year. I added the word living to the front, living beyond the shadow of doubt because I wanted to start focusing more on the life and the living that comes

 

Beth Hinze (32:54.514)

Yeah, for sure.

 

Beth Hinze (33:06.388)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (33:16.115)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (33:19.008)

on the other side of maybe that comes on the other side of feeling those uncomfortable, sometimes scary feelings and just stepping out into the great wide unknown and uncertain that can actually be petrifying at times. But there is joy on the other side of that. For me, it’s been a huge faith expansion. It’s like, okay, I learned this.

 

that aligns, I’m going to keep it. This doesn’t feel aligned, I’m going to release it. And what else is there? That’s my favorite word, know, and what else? So I’d love to hear about those parts, like the joy that has come, the life and the living that has come on the other side of stepping into all this unknown.

 

Beth Hinze (33:54.184)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (34:10.194)

Yeah, I think because I I allowed myself to go at my own pace. No one shoved me into my new beliefs. No one shoved me out of my religion. I did it on my own timeline, my own pace, as fast or slow as I want it to go. Because of that, I feel like I have a solid foundation of exactly what you were saying. I know exactly what I believe. And I have been able to basically remove

 

everything else that isn’t that. And it has been so joyful. You would think it would be dark and scary. And I’m lost and afraid. And it is the exact opposite of that. I feel light. I feel happier. I feel

 

Meagan Skidmore (34:56.92)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (35:10.428)

stronger, I feel more connected to myself. yeah, but yes, yes. And I have literally cut out the middle men, not middle man, middle men. And now I feel like I have a direct just God and I have a we have a thing going on and it is ours. And there is literally no one in between us.

 

Meagan Skidmore (35:15.552)

I was just gonna say that. Yes, yes, it’s a thing. It happens.

 

Meagan Skidmore (35:36.419)

Yeah.

 

Yes.

 

Beth Hinze (35:39.59)

And no one will ever, ever again be able to tell me what to believe, ever.

 

Meagan Skidmore (35:48.514)

Yeah, I wrote my first book and I remember writing, there was a chapter that talks about this and I wrote, nobody comes between me and my relationship with the divine.

 

Beth Hinze (35:57.269)

Mm hmm. Right, absolutely not. And what’s so crazy about it is, as I’ve started to learn, like now what it is I believe and bring things in, I’ve started to learn that I have gifts that I didn’t know I had, spiritual gifts that I never knew I had.

 

Meagan Skidmore (36:01.409)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (36:22.84)

Yes. Yes. Yes.

 

Beth Hinze (36:24.34)

And that’s one of the places where you and I come in as friends, because you and I were in the same room the day we both met Kira Brinton. And I learned about channeling and I learned about, you know, speaking to my spirit guides and speaking to, you know, calling in help. I had

 

Meagan Skidmore (36:34.296)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (36:39.288)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (36:46.082)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (36:52.184)

Yeah, our angels, our helpers, our all, we have a team and it’s so beautiful. Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (36:55.088)

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It’s funny. had. I love it. I love it so much. had I had thought about some of that before. I kind of come to some my own realizations that this might be a thing. I called it spiritual marketing for a little while in my own head of like asking when it came to my own business. Like, what do I do?

 

Meagan Skidmore (37:06.829)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (37:17.23)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (37:22.868)

But when I met Kira and she started telling us and explaining that we have these guides and these angels and these people that watch over us on the other side, I’m like, I know that I already knew that. But the way that she kind of taught us how to talk to them, I see it. I have these. I don’t know. I don’t know if I want to go in total detail, but I have these spiritual gifts now where

 

I am not just figuring stuff out on my own. I have a direct relationship with my guides and the people that are sent to help me.

 

Meagan Skidmore (38:07.342)

That is so beautiful, Beth. I’m so happy for you that you have found that and connected with that.

 

Beth Hinze (38:08.924)

I love it so much and I…

 

Beth Hinze (38:14.034)

Well, and I think it kind of is so interesting. And thank you. I think it’s so interesting that when one thing is removed, it makes room for something else. I don’t know if there would have been room for me personally to have this, this realization and gift. And I don’t know how it would have been received in my previous life.

 

Meagan Skidmore (38:29.528)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (38:38.296)

So one of my biggest, guess I’ll call it a revelation, but it’s a reclamation, is I had a huge aha moment. It was actually at a conference, Kira hosted in January of this year in Phoenix. And I got some very distinct messaging. And one of them was, you know, I used to think I had to wait until after I died.

 

to claim and use and hone and cultivate.

 

these gifts of being a priestess and a goddess, like really and truly these gifts, I have felt called into this space of being a healer and I’m still learning about that. And I agree with you, I don’t believe I would have taken up space to learn more about that in a previous version of me. And…

 

Beth Hinze (39:41.904)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (39:45.368)

Yeah, we can claim that now.

 

Beth Hinze (39:49.268)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (39:50.435)

We don’t have to wait. that was powerful and maybe a little bit scary, but mostly powerful, really and truly, and especially the more that I have stepped into that. Like I’m studying elements of shamanism now and that. So I’m genuinely thrilled for you. I think that’s so neat.

 

Beth Hinze (39:52.232)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (39:59.465)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (40:11.144)

Yeah, thank you. I’d love it for you. I picture you the week I met you.

 

November of 2021. And I can picture you that week. And I see you now. And I think like, there’s my friend in both instances, but like the

 

Meagan Skidmore (40:19.522)

You can remember the week. yeah, it was at Fearless. That’s right. Fearless conference, that’s right.

 

Beth Hinze (40:39.038)

Growth doesn’t seem like the right word because it just seems kind of not boring, like you are like growth. if you were, yeah, it’s, it doesn’t, it does. It’s not beautiful enough. Like it’s not pretty enough. It’s like when you’re spelling the word growth, but flowers pop out of it or like just, you know, a giant, beautiful garden comes out of it. The amount of the, the, the change, the shift in you. Yeah. Super. So beautiful.

 

Meagan Skidmore (40:46.252)

right?

 

Meagan Skidmore (40:56.866)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (41:03.82)

Yeah. Yeah. And likewise, thank you for saying that. And likewise, I’ve seen growth and evolution from you as well. And it’s been.

 

Beth Hinze (41:14.194)

Yeah, I think it’s just fascinating. We think there’s not going to be joy. We think there’s going to be fear. think we’re going to. I specifically remember going and meeting for a couple of months, dropping my son off at preschool and going over to a lady’s house once a week who had left the LDS religion and asking her, do I do this? And asking her all the questions like, well, what do I do on Sundays?

 

Meagan Skidmore (41:17.678)

Good.

 

Meagan Skidmore (41:33.422)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (41:37.713)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (41:41.553)

What do do with my family? what are they going to do about, you know, I had so many questions of life after and she kind of was my, my guide or mentor. Like I was taking a class or something and I really wasn’t, but I will always be grateful for her for like helping me. Like kind of calm some of those fears, like answering me in a way that just felt like there’s nothing to be afraid of here. And, and like,

 

there’s so much joy that on Sundays, we are not rushing out the door to go straight to church. used to I used to take four hour naps every Sunday. I now maybe take 20 minute naps, 20 minutes tops and, and barely. But my family, we do stuff together, the boys and I and my husband, we, we, we do stuff as a family instead of like,

 

Meagan Skidmore (42:39.758)

you

 

Beth Hinze (42:40.38)

spending most of our Sunday in a building and then most of our week doing things for the church. And it’s not that we don’t, you know, do things for the community. It’s different. It’s different.

 

Meagan Skidmore (42:54.958)

There’s so much power in…

 

in having this awareness that you have this thing, whether it’s beliefs, whether it’s a way of life, whether it’s the way you are, your being, and then stepping back and being the observer of this thing, this entity, this organization, these beliefs, whatever, and purposefully and thoughtfully examining them, even if you

 

then re-choose them, you reintegrate them back into your life. It’s so empowering to do that. And I love that I did arrive at a point where I gave myself permission, as scary as it is to even think about calling into question some things that go along with this journey. It is, nobody goes out searching for this. That’s such a misconception. Nobody…

 

Beth Hinze (43:31.528)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (43:36.402)

Right. Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (43:56.18)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (43:58.383)

is takes this lightly, at least in my experience. And I’ve talked with a lot of people. It’s not when it’s something that has been such an integral part of your, not just your life, but the people who’ve come before you. So.

 

Beth Hinze (44:12.392)

Yeah, it’s exactly like you’re saying, like, how would I take this lightly if I have three boys that I now need to raise in a completely different religious paradigm, right? How am I supposed to do that? It’s not only like my own life that I’m watching over, but it’s theirs too. And so when

 

Meagan Skidmore (44:18.883)

Yeah.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (44:26.988)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (44:39.202)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (44:42.194)

When I take, when I question these things and when I look at these things, I’m not doing it just like so I can, you know, drink coffee, which, you know, LDS people don’t do, or drink alcohol, which LDS people don’t do. Like my boy’s life, my boy’s spirituality, that is so much more to me than any of these things that people are just like, well, you wanted to sin, you wanted to drink alcohol, you wanted to, I’m like,

 

Meagan Skidmore (44:53.345)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (45:08.259)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (45:10.394)

No, don’t mix it up because…

 

Meagan Skidmore (45:13.528)

Yeah, please don’t reduce it to that.

 

Beth Hinze (45:15.476)

Right, right. Because this is so huge. This is one of the biggest things I will question in my entire life. And then coming to the conclusion that this isn’t right for me, it felt like a death.

 

Meagan Skidmore (45:20.568)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (45:25.005)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (45:33.582)

Yeah, I relate to that.

 

Beth Hinze (45:35.656)

the grieving and the death that came with it, it is not to be, I would not go through all of that just so I could drink alcohol, just so that I could wear a tank top shirt, just so I could drink coffee. No, absolutely not.

 

Meagan Skidmore (45:45.1)

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Yeah, I want you to know I see you and I hear you and a lot of what you’re sharing resonates. Hearing somebody witness or testify in a class or in a church meeting of some kind to say, know this thing beyond the shadow of a doubt was something I heard a lot growing up. Maybe you did too, because certainty was.

 

Beth Hinze (46:16.499)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (46:20.268)

very much prized, it was sought after, was what we were supposed to aspire to. having this pivot in my faith journey, so many years back now, I realized I wasn’t letting myself lean into these questions and doubts because of the shame and the guilt that I would feel as they came up because of what I was making it mean about me and who I was as a person and as a faithful person and whatnot. But I’m past that and

 

But that’s been the inspiration behind the name of my podcast, right? That let’s talk about doubt and let’s cast it in a completely different light. The true light, it’s not a bad thing, it’s actually a catalyst to growth. It’s two sides of the same, faith and doubt are two sides of the same coin. Faith, the opposite of faith is not certainty, it’s doubt, right?

 

Beth Hinze (47:08.19)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (47:16.404)

So having said that, my last question for each of my guests is tell us what does living beyond the shadow of doubt mean to you?

 

Beth Hinze (47:27.604)

really do feel like it is giving yourself the permission.

 

Beth Hinze (47:37.832)

giving yourself the permission to listen to yourself. Like we have been pre-programmed. We have come to this earth programmed and wired to have an intuition. And how did that happen? God.

 

And so to bypass that wiring for some random dude in another state or another part of the world to tell me what’s true and what’s not when my wiring, the way God created me and those alarms going off.

 

Meagan Skidmore (48:16.59)

you

 

Beth Hinze (48:18.628)

It really is gaslighting yourself. It really is telling your inner truth, your inner knowing your inner compass to take several seats and I will never, never do that again. I trust my intuition so much that now I my family teases me not in a mean way but joking like I like to say, well, how does that make you feel?

 

Because I ask my own self, I ask my husband, I ask my kids, I ask my clients, drop into your body. What is your body telling you about this situation? Does this feel true to you? Does this feel off? Does this feel, is there some kind of friction here? Like, what is that? Right. Right. Right.

 

Meagan Skidmore (48:51.864)

Yeah, that’s so important.

 

Meagan Skidmore (48:58.859)

Absolutely.

 

Meagan Skidmore (49:05.826)

Yeah, we’ve really been taught to dismiss the messages of our body for all of our lives. Yeah, I love hearing this deep connection you have found in our cultivating and have with your divine inner knowing, your divinity, which has been always there and that you’re able to share that with your clients and family and all those around you.

 

Beth Hinze (49:23.028)

Mm-hmm.

 

Beth Hinze (49:26.793)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (49:30.281)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (49:35.206)

Mm Yeah, it’s been it’s been a gift. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (49:37.422)

It’s a beautiful thing. So what is the easiest way for folks to reach you or connect with you?

 

Beth Hinze (49:47.603)

I like to hang out on Instagram. Beth dot Heinz H I N Z E like the ketchup, but just spelled different. Beth dot Heinz dot coaching on Instagram. I don’t always post and stuff because I am more of a watcher. I like to I like to I’m a serial harder. I love to go in there and like see your stuff and pump you up.

 

Meagan Skidmore (49:55.032)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (50:00.239)

That’s awesome.

 

Meagan Skidmore (50:07.041)

Meagan Skidmore (50:13.082)

huh.

 

Meagan Skidmore (50:16.91)

here that you have a presence and so folks wanted to reach out they could DM you and connect and follow. That’s great. Okay. Okay. We’ll make sure and put both of those in the show notes. So really quick, I’m just going to blow through some questions really fast just looking for one to two word answers to so our listeners can get to know you a little bit better.

 

Beth Hinze (50:16.995)

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah. And then I also have a website, bethheinz.com.

 

Beth Hinze (50:41.609)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (50:44.782)

Tell us your favorite book or our favorite book. Narrowing it down is hard for some.

 

Beth Hinze (50:48.057)

I know. Eat, pray, love.

 

Meagan Skidmore (50:52.743)

That is a good one. Okay, are you an introvert or an extrovert?

 

Beth Hinze (50:57.404)

I’m an introvert.

 

Meagan Skidmore (51:00.79)

I knew that. Who’s your favorite artist?

 

Beth Hinze (51:03.772)

Music artist or painter or music.

 

Meagan Skidmore (51:05.356)

You pick. You pick the genre.

 

Beth Hinze (51:11.454)

Sarah McLaughlin.

 

Taylor Swift. I know that’s, it sounds trendy, like from the country days, like, yeah. But Sarah McLaughlin for sure. I never miss a concert when she comes to Austin.

 

Meagan Skidmore (51:20.044)

No. No.

 

Yeah. Good for you. Are you a night owl or morning lark?

 

Beth Hinze (51:31.764)

Morning. I love this one liner. It’s nine o’clock somewhere. Put my pajamas on and 730 if I could.

 

Meagan Skidmore (51:36.726)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (51:42.862)

That’s true, I do remember that about you at various conferences we’ve been at and shared in Airbnb. I forgot about that. That is so true. Okay, tell us your celebrity crush.

 

Beth Hinze (51:45.204)

Yeah, first to fall asleep. Yep.

 

Beth Hinze (51:55.428)

it used to be Matthew McConaughey, but then I saw him in real life and he has very small hands.

 

So now I think maybe Ryan Gosling or what’s his name? The guy on twisters. Is his name Gary something? Anyway, he’s from Austin. He went to the same high school as me, but I think he’s super handsome. Whenever I see him on a movie, I’m like, this is going to be good.

 

Meagan Skidmore (52:24.142)

I don’t even.

 

Meagan Skidmore (52:30.638)

That’s fabulous. And then do you do still or carbonated water, diet soda, some other fun beverage? What’s your fave?

 

Beth Hinze (52:37.842)

Yeah, I’m Diet Dr. Pepper’s biggest fan.

 

Meagan Skidmore (52:41.166)

There you go. And then finally, the furthest place that you have traveled.

 

Beth Hinze (52:46.932)

I lived in Germany when I was a kid. For a couple years my dad was stationed there in the army. I know you said one or two word answers, but I just cannot, Megan.

 

Meagan Skidmore (52:57.226)

It’s okay. You’re not alone in that. Well, Beth, it has been so much fun to chat with you and reconnect, but also I learned some things about you that I didn’t know. So thank you for trusting me and our listeners with that in your story. Absolutely.

 

Beth Hinze (53:00.563)

Yeah.

 

Beth Hinze (53:14.748)

Well, thank you for inviting me and trusting me with your listeners. I appreciate it. and also, for those who are listening, Megan has been a coach for my own son. He just adored your work. He thought the world of you. And so Megan’s been so helpful to our family personally. Good friend to me. Good coach to my boy. Love you to pieces friend.

 

Meagan Skidmore (53:20.929)

absolutely!

 

Meagan Skidmore (53:26.924)

Mmm, yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (53:34.638)

He’s a good kid.

 

Meagan Skidmore (53:39.694)

Thank you for saying that. Yeah, I love him. Love you too. Thank you again.

 

Beth Hinze (53:46.366)

You’re welcome.