Episode 218: Embodying the word “AND” with Mandy Giles, Founder of Parents of Trans Youth

Meagan Skidmore (00:01.39)

Hey everyone, welcome to today’s episode of Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt. I am super thrilled for today’s episode for the chat that I get to have today with my friend Mandy Giles. We circulate in many different circles, not to use the same word essentially, but we have, our paths have crossed.

 

more than once and we’ve kind of been connecting the dots. We both are parents of queer kiddos and so we both attend things like the Free Mom Hugs Conference earlier this year and other areas. So I’m really excited to have the opportunity to share your story and your insights and the beautiful mission that you have created.

 

or stepped up to, however you determine or call it. And I’ll let you put the words to that. Anyway, Mandy, please take a moment and introduce yourselves to our listeners, your background upbringing, all the things, your profession and your current work. We’d love to hear about it.

 

Mandy Giles (01:16.171)

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. This is a real treat. Pardon. So yeah, so I’m Mandy. My pronouns are she, her, and I live in Houston with my husband, Neil. We have three kids, Indigo and Mars are both 23. They are twins and they both live in Austin, kind of live in the.

 

young person dream there. Our son Henry is 18 and he will be starting college in the fall, just in a couple weeks as of this recording. So Indigo and Mars are both transgender. Indigo came out to us as non-binary when they were in about, I guess, ninth grade. And Mars came out to us as non-binary when they were a freshman in college.

 

Meagan Skidmore (01:41.742)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Mandy Giles (02:11.323)

So for me, I grew up in Houston. I went away to college in North Carolina and then came back to Houston. I couldn’t stay away from the big city. And then I started a career in nonprofit fundraising. And then I took several years off to be with my kids and stay home with them and then went back to work in that same profession in nonprofit development.

 

Meagan Skidmore (02:29.358)

Okay.

 

Mandy Giles (02:39.987)

And about that same time that I went back to work was when Indigo came out to us. And it was really hard for me at first because I grew up in a relatively conservative household and community, both kind of, I guess, culturally and religious.

 

Meagan Skidmore (03:03.608)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Mandy Giles (03:04.363)

sense. We, grew up in an Episcopal household and although I guess of all the denominations maybe that is of the more progressive but our congregation was not. And so exactly, Yeah, yeah and so any gosh.

 

Meagan Skidmore (03:09.505)

Okay.

 

Meagan Skidmore (03:17.29)

Okay, every congregation is not created the same. Doesn’t matter what faith background. Yeah.

 

Mandy Giles (03:30.735)

not even exposure, but any talking about LGBTQ people was kind of in a negative sense or, gosh, jokes are being made fun of or just, we just didn’t talk about that kind of stuff at all. And so, so when, as I said, like I had one in my home, it was hard. And also I just, I just had no knowledge of gender diversity. Indigo was the first.

 

transgender person I’d met that I, of course, that I knew of. So I had a lot of fear and doubt and what felt like grief. But I, here’s the good news, I got support from lots of different organizations. I educated myself and over the years I’ve really built up a network of

 

other, a supportive network of other parents of transgender kids as well as transgender adults, advocates, I guess kind of subject matter experts. So after Indigo came out to us and we as a family were out more publicly, other parents of trans kids began contacting me for support. At first it was

 

friends and then it was friends of friends and I started getting connected to people all over the country. Just people really wanted to connect and share their stories and kind of compare and share resources. And so I learned that parents were really hungry for that connection.

 

and that support and that learning. And so that was kind of noodling around in my head and like, how can I serve these parents on a larger scale in some way? And so at the time I was working for a Christian nonprofit and while the employees were kind of all over the spectrum of, I don’t know, I guess, ideology maybe of conservative, progressive, however,

 

Mandy Giles (05:46.633)

you would term that, but our donors were very conservative. And that was in my department. And so I was writing grant proposals to funders that didn’t align with my values at all. it didn’t, maybe didn’t include or include, that’s an understatement, rejected any kind of leadership or clergy or.

 

spiritual leaders who were LGBTQ, sometimes even women, and sometimes they even had it like in their statement of faith that homosexuality was a sin or thinking you were a different gender was a sin and against God and I thought like this doesn’t feel very good because this is not my life.

 

I knew I needed to do something different that did align with my values and that would also allow me to use some skills and talents that I wasn’t using in that particular position. So I quit that job in like the spring of 2020. Literally took a leap of faith. I had no idea what I was gonna do, but I knew it was gonna be educating and advocating in some way for trans kids.

 

And then like a week later, the pandemic hit. So, which actually I think turned out to be a good thing because it gave me a lot of time to do market research and really do kind of refine my messaging and my audience and really figure out where I as a cisgender straight person, a mom,

 

Meagan Skidmore (07:18.913)

Wow.

 

Mandy Giles (07:40.011)

fit into kind of this ecosystem of education and advocacy. And I just got some really, really good advice during that time. And so then in 2021, I just happened to be in Austin during that year’s Texas legislative session when the first anti-trans bill came up. That year was all about sports. It was being heard in a Senate committee.

 

And I felt 2021 was when, because in Texas, the legislative sessions are every other year and they’re in odd years. so I, because, you know, thought like, I said I was going to do this work, so I guess I better go testify. I and I knew nothing about that. got but I got some good advice from some advocacy organizations and.

 

Meagan Skidmore (08:10.456)

This was 2020.

 

2021, okay.

 

Meagan Skidmore (08:19.489)

Okay, okay.

 

Mandy Giles (08:39.227)

I was terrified. Well, one, I just have logistical anxiety. So like wondering like, where is the Capitol? How do I find the room? Where’s the bathroom? Where do I park? Where do I put my purse? But then also telling my story as my very vulnerable and personal story as just the mom of trans kids and telling these lawmakers how

 

Meagan Skidmore (08:49.23)

you

 

Mandy Giles (09:07.947)

the proposed bill would affect families like mine. It was terrifying and then it was exhilarating and I loved it. And that whole experience showed me a different side of what it means to support your kids and advocate for them. And I knew that just needed to be a part of my work. So in 2022, I launched Parents of Trans Youth.

 

which is a social impact business that provides learning, support, and community to parents and caregivers of transgender, non-binary, and gender diverse kids and young adults. We focus on Texas, because that’s where I live, and there’s a lot going on in Texas. So I also do a lot of local and state advocacy, but we serve families all over the country. So that’s what I’m doing now.

 

Meagan Skidmore (10:00.674)

love that. Wow, what a journey. So I didn’t catch, what was your degree in college?

 

Mandy Giles (10:07.723)

good question. Psychology and public policy, those are my two majors, and then I minored in women’s studies. And I actually kind of fell, well, I started in public policy because that’s where my college had their journalism area, and that just didn’t pan out. But I was a couple classes away from.

 

Meagan Skidmore (10:15.17)

Okay.

 

Mandy Giles (10:36.053)

completing the majors, I was like, all right, whatever. And I’m never gonna use this. And now it turns out that I use it every day. So I wish I’d paid more attention in those classes.

 

Meagan Skidmore (10:41.358)

That is amazing. Your, it sounds like a double major. Your double major and your minor could not have been more tailor-made for your life’s purpose that you have clearly just dove in, jumped in feet first. I was curious to learn a little bit more. You said you grew up in a household of.

 

Mandy Giles (10:48.286)

Yes.

 

Mandy Giles (10:54.325)

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (11:11.884)

Well, Episcopalian. And although in general, that particular faith and their tenants are a little bit more open, your particular congregation was not. What would you say your home life or structure was like? Because just because a family attends a certain or aligns with a certain religion, right? The way that is interpreted or the things that are emphasized in the home growing up can vary.

 

a lot. And I truly believe that also has an, plays a role in who we become and who what how we navigate then. Once we leave that home, how we navigate the things in life that will be part of our path that will come and, and we intersect with and we are then invited to decide what we want to do with

 

perhaps new information or new insight, or I like to say, you when I see things that I didn’t previously see. So how would you describe your kind of that home environment and did it play a role?

 

Mandy Giles (12:23.403)

Yeah, sure. that’s such an interesting question because I would, so when you hear kind of how it was in my home, it did influence how I move about in the world now, but maybe not in the way that you think it might be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.

 

Meagan Skidmore (12:41.326)

There’s no wrong or right. It’s just all information. It’s so interesting and I love to hear people’s

 

Mandy Giles (12:51.657)

Let’s see, we as a family went to church every Sunday and I participated in youth group. And I went to a series of summer camps and.

 

Most of the, no, I guess all of them had like a Christian bent. Actually, I went one summer to the camp that was destroyed in the recent floods in Texas. And so that holds some, actually some heartbreaking and yet complicated feelings for me. And the camp that I,

 

Meagan Skidmore (13:28.984)

sure.

 

Mandy Giles (13:34.441)

like the last one that I went to in like the series of camps was a I guess I knew now like more of a I may not be using this word correctly, but like a fundamentalist bent to the camp. And I think I still I carried that with me and kind of what I learned from my parents. Well, let me back up. I think that.

 

Meagan Skidmore (13:48.91)

Really.

 

Mandy Giles (14:02.633)

what I learned at that camp and kind of my parents attitude was more of, hmm, was definitely more of like us and them. We’re in and everybody else is out, whether that’s just, well, heaven of, if you don’t believe this, then you’re not gonna get the good stuff or.

 

We’re doing the right thing and everybody else is doing the wrong thing. A lot of judgment, I think. And I probably internalized that too. Like, okay, this is how I’m supposed to be and I better not deviate from that path. And I think some of the religion probably was…

 

I don’t know, somewhat performative, I guess, in that, or at least now looking back, there wasn’t a, yeah, not a lot of, say, serving others or, I don’t know, volunteering or helping other people or donating or anything like that. And just thinking about how different my life is now.

 

Meagan Skidmore (15:03.246)

Yeah, that’s a common thing.

 

Mandy Giles (15:26.463)

and how that is my life is serving others and totally deviating from the path that I thought I was gonna be on and that my parents thought I was gonna be on. And I just feel like my true self now more than I ever have. And I don’t feel like I have to fit in a box anymore.

 

Meagan Skidmore (15:48.846)

you

 

Meagan Skidmore (15:53.359)

Gosh, so many questions. I’m curious to know then what that upbringing, what role it played when your first kiddo came out and then later, if that was hard or you mentioned the word grief and I relate to that. I don’t think people realize that when you have known a person in a certain way, there’s expectations that come with that.

 

And so there are some deaths that happen of sorts. I use that word obviously poetically, but sometimes physical death isn’t the only death that we experience. There’s emotional, mental, spiritual, there’s death of expectations. And sometimes with that comes hopes and dreams. So if you can share a little bit about that aspect. And then you also mentioned your now path. You use the word deviated. I’m going to say.

 

aligned with your true purpose, right? But you said it was, it’s definitely different than what even you expected and your parents, you said, I didn’t catch if you have siblings or not, but it’s clearly different than what your family and yourself expected. You how have they navigated that? What is that experience? If you can speak to those two things, I would love to hear your experience.

 

Mandy Giles (16:51.17)

Uh-huh.

 

Mandy Giles (17:14.153)

Yeah, sure. Yeah, okay, okay, what were the questions again? So the first, okay, my response, yes. Okay.

 

Meagan Skidmore (17:21.39)

Your response, your religious upbringing, how that influenced or maybe played a role in when you first responded to when your kiddo came out and it brought in some doubts, said it brought in grief. Well, I’m assuming that’s what you meant. I don’t want to assume, but you used those words to describe part of your journey earlier on.

 

Mandy Giles (17:47.081)

Mm-hmm

 

Yeah, yeah. I think, well, by that point, by the time the first kiddo came out to us, my, I guess my world view had expanded beyond what I saw at home, going to college and meeting lots of different kinds of people and different ideas and

 

Meagan Skidmore (18:10.945)

time.

 

Mandy Giles (18:20.523)

just especially women’s studies for sure kind of expanded a lot of my ideas and I was like, oh my gosh, I’ve been oppressed. just, know, like maybe it’s okay to be angry or whatever, you know, the case may be. And even though I still felt tied

 

Meagan Skidmore (18:28.824)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (18:33.326)

you

 

Mandy Giles (18:49.491)

Well, I still have the foundation of Christianity in my life. I experienced it, I think, in a different way. it took a while to, I guess, find my footing and find that, I guess I should say, religious home. And that came along, actually, when I met my husband.

 

kind of long story, but we met blind date through a blind date and we had very low expectations of each other, so it worked out great. part of our dating was going to church. He had started going to church with his mom and he was kind of having this spiritual awakening in a way. And so I started going with him and the church that we were going to and that we still go to today after.

 

gosh, how long has it been? 26 years, 27 years, is definitely more progressive. so I learned to experience what Christianity could be in a more expansive way than I had experienced it before. So by the time Archido came out, I think I…

 

I felt like I was much more open-minded than the way I was raised. And when it’s your kid, it’s different. You can be out there waving pride flags all over the place and say, yes, I believe in this. And it’s just different when it’s your kid. So.

 

Meagan Skidmore (20:26.094)

you

 

Meagan Skidmore (20:38.882)

I appreciate you being just forthcoming about that. Yeah.

 

Mandy Giles (20:41.343)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. And I hear that all the time with the parents I work with. Like, yeah, you know, I was going to the pride parades, and I’m on the DEI committee of da-da-da-da-da. And then I was like, my gosh, my kid came out as trans. And I was like, what? And it’s just because gender is not maybe something you expect to change in your kid. And you’re talking about expectations. And I think that was probably the most important.

 

thing that I learned through the support network that I built up was that what I was feeling as grief or loss was the loss of my expectations for my kids. For both of them really. You just think your kid is gonna be one gender forever and then that changes and you’re like what? Or they’re gonna have the same name forever.

 

you know, that’s a weird expectation to change or they’re going to be this way or have this kind of romantic partner or and I think as all parents have expectations for their kids, you know, you know, as much as we would like our kids to do things that we tell them to do or hope that they would do, they don’t and not all the time, definitely. And

 

So in a way, this is just one of those things, but it’s kind of a big thing that’s core to their identity. So it was definitely hard at first and…

 

You know, I remember there would be nights where my husband and I would be kind clutching each other and being like, is this real? Is this a real thing? And like, well, we just gotta keep on keeping on. And we learned that whatever was in front of us was the current reality. And we learned that might change at some point, but this is how our kid is. And so we need to support them to the best of our ability.

 

Mandy Giles (22:51.275)

So, you know, and I think this happens with a lot of parents to just kind of have to muddle through until you learn more and learn really, well, learn more about your kid and really see your kid for who they are. And then you’re like, oh, okay, so this is maybe what they might need to feel supported and loved and safe and affirmed from us. And I think that.

 

Meagan Skidmore (23:17.07)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Mandy Giles (23:20.427)

is key.

 

Meagan Skidmore (23:22.402)

I love, love, love that you said as you would have conversations with your husband. We just learned to, I’ll say the word deal with, but I just mean look at what is going on right now, right now. And that’s what we’re going to address. That’s what we’re gonna try to figure out because you knew, like you said, you learned that it might evolve.

 

And you know, what I’ve learned is gender is a social construct, right? People mix that up with what a person’s genitals are at birth, which is really just their sex, what is traditionally called their sex. But because we know there are individuals who are born with some combination of both, you know, it’s this

 

Mandy Giles (24:04.647)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (24:21.356)

It’s as common as, you know, number of redheads we see around us in our lives, right? It’s just not as talked about and well, redheads, it’s obvious you can see their hair on top of their head, right? Gender not, or excuse me, sex not so obvious or intersex situations. So I love that you just, you just decided let’s just focus on the here.

 

Mandy Giles (24:34.315)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (24:50.518)

and the now. think when we are taught something and we believe it to be absolute, because it’s the way it’s taught, then when part of our experience is we’re invited, it’s really kind of an invitation. We can step into whatever is different than what we were taught and choose to navigate those sometimes really, really hard emotions and

 

bring into question our own beliefs up to that point and the possibility that maybe we were incorrect in our understanding or we didn’t, I like to say we didn’t have all of the information, all of the understanding, right?

 

Mandy Giles (25:35.445)

Yeah, and I think that takes a degree of humility to really look at the way you have been taught to look at the world and the other things you’ve been taught and think like, okay, I could be wrong or I could look at things a different way and that’s hard, that is humbling. I always say like when,

 

Meagan Skidmore (25:39.767)

It does.

 

Meagan Skidmore (25:55.0)

home

 

Meagan Skidmore (26:00.59)

Yeah.

 

Mandy Giles (26:03.403)

when you start to learn about gender and sex and gender expression, it kind of blows your world up. Because you think like, if that’s different, if there are more than two genders, what else is different in my world? And what else have I been taught? And it kind of freaks you out. so it takes that humility and some courage to like I just keep.

 

Meagan Skidmore (26:22.798)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mandy Giles (26:31.307)

plodding on and be like, well, okay, we’ve got to deal with the here and now. And so, so what’s next? And we just got to keep going.

 

Meagan Skidmore (26:35.928)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (26:41.112)

Not to know about you in your work, in your circles, I have found it so important to increase awareness of the emotions that are bubbling up when we are in these situations, these navigating things that we didn’t know we were going to, because it’s such a different energy to act from a place of fear than to act from a place of curiosity, of…

 

Mandy Giles (26:50.123)

Mm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (27:09.536)

Interest and like you said it does require some humility Being teachable being willing to Acknowledge whether it’s just within yourself or out loud verbally to your kid maybe to your spouse to family members Whatever. I don’t know everything I’m learning I remember that moment when I realized wow I thought I knew a lot of things and I’m learning there’s so much more that I don’t know

 

then I do know. I have a lot more questions than I do answers. And you know, that’s a good place to be. I actually thrive on, I’m not sure, on, I lean into uncertainty. It’s such a healthier place. It’s a more malleable, transformative, expansive space to live from. And so then when things pop up that you weren’t expecting,

 

your whole world doesn’t come crashing down. It’s like, okay, let’s learn more. Let’s find out more. So just really quickly, we don’t need to like focus on this, but so how did your family?

 

Mandy Giles (28:11.851)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (28:25.44)

How did they do with all of this expansiveness or this change, this transformation?

 

Mandy Giles (28:30.687)

Yeah, good question. It took a while for us to, as a family, to be ready to tell my family. And I have one brother. really, the kids, let’s see, I guess by the time we told my parents Indigo had,

 

Meagan Skidmore (28:43.786)

huh.

 

Mandy Giles (29:00.085)

been out as non-binary maybe two years, maybe a year, somewhere around there, and was going by a different name and different pronouns. And then their twin, Mars, I think at that point was identifying as not straight, as queer. And.

 

Meagan Skidmore (29:01.57)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mandy Giles (29:28.059)

So it got to the point where like Indigo was out to like the whole world except my parents. And we live in the same city. They’re sort of on Facebook but not real. It was very strange. And so we had to be very, very careful. You know, if we shared pictures of our kids and how we refer to them. And it was right before.

 

Thanksgiving one year and maybe their junior year or something. And I was like, you know what? It may be time that we need to tell them because I, and up to this point, I had had many conversations with Indigo and I still do with both kids of who is it okay to tell? Who are you out to? What can I say?

 

And like, you ready to tell Khaki and Pappy? No, not yet. And I said, well, you know what? They’re going to be over here for Thanksgiving. And it’s going to feel like I’m not respecting you or validating who you are if I can’t use your name, your new name. And yeah, we.

 

Meagan Skidmore (30:46.136)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (30:51.15)

So interesting.

 

Mandy Giles (30:56.183)

And I know that some families have this kind of conversation and then some, there’s many different ways to have this kind of conversation of when you tell extended family. And we as a family had to come to the point that we said, okay, we’re going to tell them and we have to be ready. It may be that they freak out. It may be that they don’t talk to us for a while. It may be that they don’t come to Thanksgiving. We don’t know. And so…

 

my husband and I went with Indigo to talk to my parents before, the day before. It was actually funny, said, well, we have something to tell you. And when we got there, my mom was like, we thought you were pregnant. I was like, my gosh, no. Do you know how old I am? And then, do you remember when you helped me after my husband wrecked me? But anyway, and so actually that was.

 

Meagan Skidmore (31:40.974)

you

 

Mandy Giles (31:53.983)

probably better news. And they actually took it really well. It was kind of funny because my mom said, I know all about that. OK. And my brain, part of me was going, OK, I wonder where she’s getting her information, probably from Fox News. then I was saying, OK, I need to put together some websites for her. And my dad.

 

Um, he said, have, are you okay? Like to indigo or have you ever been bullied because of this? want to make sure you’re okay. And that I did not expect. Yeah. I did not expect that reaction that he would even think that like be aware enough. Um, so that was really cool. And then of course the next day my mom was called and was like, is this again? Um,

 

Meagan Skidmore (32:36.718)

So thoughtful. That is so cool.

 

Meagan Skidmore (32:50.921)

Ha ha ha ha ha.

 

Mandy Giles (32:52.337)

So they’re both, I would say they’re respectful of my kids and are support of them. They don’t really understand it. They use the new names for my kids. They’re working on the pronouns and I understand that they then pronouns are very hard for older people or for anybody really.

 

Meagan Skidmore (33:15.384)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, but kudos to them for trying. Because I think at the end of the day, that’s really all that matters to our kids and in their case, grandkids, really, that they’re trying.

 

Mandy Giles (33:21.895)

Yeah, there.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely, yeah, definitely when they’re trying. And well, the trying didn’t quite happen for a long time. And so when they do say they in a conversation, like, heard you say they, good job, good job, I heard that. So yeah, and then my…

 

Meagan Skidmore (33:36.814)

I don’t know.

 

Meagan Skidmore (33:46.126)

Good.

 

Mandy Giles (33:49.865)

My brother was fine with it. I think maybe he didn’t tell his kids for a while. And that kind of stung a little bit. But that’s the only way you need to use their names. Because I mean, this is their name. So now we’re all pretty cool. My parents don’t understand what I do at all. I’m not sure they’re interested. But I try to connect on a level.

 

that they can understand like, a business level with my dad or my mom majored in public speaking and so I try to talk about that with her and it still doesn’t quite connect, which is a little sad that I can’t really share those things with them, I have other people I can share.

 

Meagan Skidmore (34:40.782)

Yeah, lots of things that we get to.

 

we get to adjust our expectations of. And one thing I’ve noticed, and I love you use the word and a lot, that’s become a favorite word of mine. I think if we introduced and more often into our conversations, into our critical thinking, into when we learn, I can differentiate myself.

 

from my family of origin, my faith or religion of origin, or for some people, know, politics, their political party becomes a family identity or whoever they’re, maybe they connect with. We can differentiate, right? One thing I have actively pursued is creating a space that is free of us versus them. That’s why I interview people from

 

all faith backgrounds, no matter where they fall in what that practice looks like. So maybe some are still involved or connected to their faith of origin. They attend fairly regularly. Maybe some attend only Easter and Christmas. And then maybe some just, it doesn’t fill a line for them. They lean more towards spirituality and those practices. But all of it is welcome. It’s…

 

For me, it’s always, okay, I’ve purposely chosen which beliefs, tenants, whatever that I was raised with still align. And that’s a beautiful thing. There’s nothing more empowering than re-examining what you were taught and then purposely re-choosing something and then releasing that which doesn’t align for you any longer. And what else is there that maybe I wasn’t taught or that wasn’t?

 

Meagan Skidmore (36:47.522)

brought to my awareness, not to criticize those who came before me, you or in your case, you. I truly believe people do the best that they know until they understand better. And then the invitation, unspoken or not, is to do better when you know better, just like Maya Angelou said.

 

So I caught that you said going to college and then through those years, you kind of already were evolving in your understanding of your faith and your religious beliefs, we’ll say. And then that’s evolved even more to present day. My favorite question to ask is, as you have, you used the term, I think you said my spiritual home.

 

my home of where my faith is. And that’s so beautiful. As you have purposely cultivated that space for yourself, share with us the joy and the life and the living that has come for you as you have. Sometimes it can be really scary to step into those spaces of the unknown or that are different from what our people or our communities.

 

that we grew up with are in or are practicing or doing. I have found so much joy in taking the reins of my journey. And so I love to hear from others the joys that they have found, the moments of bliss even as you have taken that into your own hands, so to speak.

 

Mandy Giles (38:28.491)

Yeah.

 

Mandy Giles (38:33.995)

Yeah, that is a good question. Okay, so I’m thinking that this is kind of on three different fronts. And if I keep thinking there may be more. if I think about it in terms of my, I guess, religious home, my church that I attend.

 

Meagan Skidmore (38:45.518)

Okay.

 

Mandy Giles (39:02.231)

I mean, my husband and I have been going there for so long. It’s really a huge part of our relationship. It’s woven into the fabric of our family. We were married there. Our kids were baptized there. We still go there. The kids have kind of been in and out. Sometimes they come back. Sometimes they don’t. But it’s always there.

 

so comforting to know that that touchstone is always there. sometimes people and our friends come and go maybe, but there are several that are still there and have been there as long as we have. it’s been really cool to see in that particular parish that it’s grown.

 

I think in the different leadership that’s been there through the years since we’ve been there, to still align more with what I’m experiencing in my work life now. Of now the church actively celebrating and putting in position of leadership LGBTQ folks, which has been really

 

Meagan Skidmore (40:00.111)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (40:24.183)

Wow.

 

Meagan Skidmore (40:28.108)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mandy Giles (40:29.183)

really cool to see.

 

And let’s see, now I lost with the other points. another place where I find joy and almost like a spirituality, and that bliss you were talking about is in the LGBTQ community and in the transgender community in particular.

 

Meagan Skidmore (40:54.188)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (40:58.887)

Mandy Giles (41:02.525)

And that has been an absolute gift. Me not being a card carrying member of the LGBTQ community, although my friends joke and they’re like, we need to just give you your card right now. I’m like, no, don’t give it to me. Don’t give it to me. don’t want to take up space. That, they have shown me what community really is and what.

 

Meagan Skidmore (41:05.592)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mandy Giles (41:31.531)

caring for other people and looking out for other people really is and what chosen family is and what literally loving your neighbor is. And it’s been absolutely beautiful and thinking, are any of my communities like this, were any of the communities that I was a part of growing up like this? And I don’t know, but.

 

I feel honored and privileged to even be a part of that group, however adjacent that is. And I’m drawn to the joy and the freedom that community experiences, that people experience. And that has been a real absolute gift in the work that I do. And then think the third part is finding

 

joy in being who I am, finding who that is, and I feel more like myself than I ever have. I think, for sure, in growing up in high school and then when I came back to Houston and then working in certain environments, I just felt like I had to be a certain way, to look a certain way, to talk a certain way.

 

And then once I kind of left that behind and was like, you know what? can, one thing I can work for myself and I can, I could do whatever I want to. I just, I feel so much freer and it’s, it’s been liberating. much happier. I, I’m more self fulfilled. so

 

Meagan Skidmore (43:20.152)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mandy Giles (43:24.715)

All three of those things work together to create a more complete picture of who I am and the joy that I’m getting from life right now.

 

Meagan Skidmore (43:32.81)

so.

 

Meagan Skidmore (43:39.919)

That’s so poetic, that’s so beautiful. And like you have mentioned, there is so much joy in the queer community. It’s beautiful to witness when someone is living their authentic truth. It’s taught me so much about me living. Am I really living authentically, right? This journey, that’s why I wrote a book about it because it has

 

Mandy Giles (43:47.122)

Mm. Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (44:09.688)

transformed me. My book is called Transparency, How I Learned to See Through My Journey as a Parent of a Transgender Kiddo, because in the process of truly learning to see my child, kiddo, for who they are, I realized there were things that I were seeing that I couldn’t unsee, and I was evolving in the way that I viewed the world.

 

Mandy Giles (44:13.599)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (44:40.15)

I learned to see hearts. I learned to see souls. And it was really stark. How much I realized we used external cues, external things, external definitions to make sense of our world and often sum people up. And that’s a shame because we miss seeing people in their hearts. We miss out on truly seeing them. So yes, that queer joy is real.

 

and being able to witness it is a gift, it’s a blessing. So my podcast is named Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt. Growing up, was a term I heard a lot. Certainty was prized and praised. To know something and say that you know it beyond the shadow of a doubt was a common thing that I heard. And I found at the beginning of this journey, it took me a while to realize

 

I was struggling to lean into the questions and the doubts that were coming up because of the shame and the guilt that I felt and what I was making it mean of me as a person, of a person of faith. And I’ve learned that doubt is actually a catalyst for growth. Doubt and faith are two sides of the same coin. The opposite of faith is not certainty. So my last question is, what does it mean to you?

 

to live beyond the shadow of doubt.

 

Mandy Giles (46:08.991)

Hmm, think hmm I’ll tie it back to what I was saying about feeling that doubt initially about like gosh does my kid really know who they are is that is it real I don’t know and

 

Mandy Giles (46:31.709)

And that doubt is okay. So, and.

 

Living beyond that shadow of doubt means having, seeing your kid for who, believing them when they tell you who they are. And it really is faith in, necessarily religious faith, but kind of like stepping out on a limb kind of faith. Like, well, okay, here we are. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (46:50.967)

and.

 

Meagan Skidmore (47:05.582)

Yeah, yeah. That’s so true. That’s such a great point, right?

 

Mandy Giles (47:11.147)

let’s go and so that’s, I think that’s something that, like I tell the parents that I work with, that it’s hard and you have to trust your kid when they tell you who they are and they know who they are and it’s hard. I think that doubt maybe comes from so many places, maybe from what we’re hearing in the news or what.

 

Meagan Skidmore (47:14.967)

Yes.

 

Meagan Skidmore (47:26.242)

Yeah, exactly.

 

Meagan Skidmore (47:37.454)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mandy Giles (47:37.547)

what spiritual leaders are saying or politicians or whatever, or what inside if we’re not experiencing that, like if we’re not transgender. Like I know I will never understand what my kids are going through, what it’s like being transgender because I’m not. So I have to put that doubt aside, that shadow, and believe them and that takes that faith.

 

Meagan Skidmore (47:59.631)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (48:06.446)

That’s so good. That’s the essence of faith, right? Is to believe in things that maybe you don’t see or don’t fully understand and that’s a choice. So any final thoughts that you would like to leave with our listeners?

 

Mandy Giles (48:12.939)

Yeah.

 

Mandy Giles (48:27.562)

Let’s I guess, yeah. Oh, we’ve talked about such amazing things. Well, here is what I’ll, thought that I’ll let your listeners in on something that when we had initially talked about the podcast, I was saying, well, I don’t really do my work through the lens of my faith or my, or through Christianity and.

 

Meagan Skidmore (48:31.074)

And if not, that’s totally fine.

 

Meagan Skidmore (48:55.822)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mandy Giles (48:58.109)

I know people who do and that is their ministry, they’re calling their mission and that’s super cool that they do that. And so I was hesitant about what am I gonna say? I don’t know. And I love the way that our conversation has turned out and you’ve taught me things about myself and really helped me self-reflect. And so I think that everybody can have that kind of journey. Again,

 

Meagan Skidmore (49:13.694)

good.

 

Mandy Giles (49:27.145)

really examining what you believe and when you have those, that loss of expectations, however it is, maybe it’s your kid, maybe it’s the job you thought you were gonna have or the partner you thought you were gonna have or whatever it is, how you thought your life was gonna turn out.

 

really having to look at, why did I have those expectations? And taking those, maybe some values that have stuck with you through the years, and then like kind of letting go of the ones that are not serving you anymore. And then moving forward into, well, that stepping out on a limb and that taking that faith and finding…

 

I don’t want to say new expectations because maybe that’s not such a great thing. Finding the hope and celebration in new things that are happening in your life. So thank you for this gift of introspection. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (50:33.006)

That is amazing.

 

Well, thank you for sharing that. Thank you so much for sharing that. That is much appreciated. And I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I will make sure to leave all of the ways to contact you in the show notes, your website, your social media handles, and all of that. Would love to share your work with more folks. So I like to throw out just a few questions to get to know you a little bit better at the end. This is for our listeners to get to know you.

 

Mandy Giles (50:44.485)

It’s been great.

 

Mandy Giles (50:49.813)

Wonderful.

 

Right?

 

Thank you. Thanks.

 

Meagan Skidmore (51:06.41)

And seriously, just looking for one to two word answers. Just going to shoot them out. So tell us your favorite book or, if that’s too hard to narrow down, favorite book.

 

Mandy Giles (51:09.461)

Okay. All right.

 

Mandy Giles (51:15.787)

I would have to say The House in the Cerulean Sea by T.J. Klune. I have read it, I think like four times. I just started it again last night. It’s just a sweet, wonderful story about outcasts who are super special.

 

Meagan Skidmore (51:38.4)

Okay, there’s another to put on your book list. Are you an introvert or an extrovert? Or would you describe yourself as either? Or neither, extrovert?

 

Mandy Giles (51:46.537)

Hmm, extrovert. I would say definitely extrovert. definitely, it takes me sometimes to like get out of the house. But when I do, I draw energy from other people.

 

Meagan Skidmore (51:59.649)

And are you a night owl or a morning lark?

 

Mandy Giles (52:05.479)

Morning lark. Even though sometimes I wish I weren’t.

 

Meagan Skidmore (52:10.254)

You just not really wake up early. That has never been me. Although I wish sometimes it was. Who is your favorite artist?

 

Mandy Giles (52:25.899)

Okay, I’ll have to say this artist that I follow on Instagram, it’s a local street artist person. And I think they go by the name, I’m trying to think of how to pronounce it. I think it’s oo-wee, it’s like O-O-W-W-E-E or something funny like that. I’ll have to give it to you, maybe you can link it or something. And…

 

Meagan Skidmore (52:47.072)

Okay, cool. Okay, I will.

 

Mandy Giles (52:54.187)

They do just amazing, just amazing, colorful, beautiful paintings and sells them on like street corners and I keep trying to find him and I miss him wherever he is. So one day I will find him and get one of his paintings.

 

Meagan Skidmore (53:07.751)

1. That’s great. That’s great. Do you have a celebrity crush? And if you don’t, that’s fine too.

 

Mandy Giles (53:14.027)

Mmm, Pedro Pascal. Ooh, be still.

 

Meagan Skidmore (53:18.892)

I think there’s a lot of moms of transgender kiddos who are loving Pedro right now because his sister is trans. Yeah. That’s great.

 

Mandy Giles (53:23.231)

Well, yeah, do you know, I… Yeah, well, yeah, I’ve heard the term Pedro-sexual. That everybody can get behind loving Pedro Pascal, no matter your orientation.

 

Meagan Skidmore (53:37.974)

Okay, that’s hilarious. I love that. That’s hilarious. That’s great. Pedro section.

 

do you do still or carbonated water or diet soda or some other fun beverage instead?

 

Mandy Giles (53:52.395)

Probably a flavored sparkling water.

 

Meagan Skidmore (53:56.194)

I love that too, yeah. I love Liquid Death. Have you ever tried that? it’s so good. The names are what I love the most, like Mango Chainsaw.

 

Mandy Giles (54:02.147)

Ooh, no, I used to do like whatever.

 

Mandy Giles (54:11.371)

I’ll have to check those out. I usually get whatever, like the Target brand of whatever flavor. I’ll look those up. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (54:15.742)

or anyway yeah they’re memorable and then finally the furthest place you’ve traveled

 

Mandy Giles (54:28.427)

Probably Hungary. I know that’s kind of random. My high school choir went there one summer. We spent a week there, which was really weird and random. Not weird. I should say unusual, uncommon. But it was beautiful. It was an incredible experience.

 

Meagan Skidmore (54:39.214)

That’s fabulous.

 

Meagan Skidmore (54:49.526)

I love that. Well, this has been so amazing, Mandy. I’m so grateful to get to know you a little bit better and even more grateful that you’ve been able to share your journey, your story, and all of the insight, the wisdom, the love that you have cultivated along the way that you are now bringing to others who are navigating similar waters as you.

 

And I’m so grateful our paths have crossed.

 

Mandy Giles (55:21.355)

Me too. Thank you so much for this time and thank you for having me on.

 

Meagan Skidmore (55:23.616)

Yeah, it’s been amazing. Thank you so much.

 

Mandy Giles (55:29.333)

Thank you.