Episode 179: You Are Both Your Captor and Liberator with Amanda Joy Loveland

Welcome everyone, and especially a huge welcome to Amanda Joy Loveland.

I’ll call you Amanda for the purposes of this episode. I’m so grateful that you are here today for this interview.

I’m grateful to be invited, Megan. Thank you so much.

You are welcome.

So go ahead and say that again.

Oh, you want me to think, okay, hold on. So you’re just gonna cut it there.

Yeah.

Sounds good.

I’ll just cut it out.

So I’m so appreciative of you taking time out of your schedule and being here with me today.

Thank you so much for inviting me again, Megan. Oh, my God! This is why I like organic. We just go with it. Hold on one second. Thank you so much for inviting me, Megan. It’s such a pleasure to be here, I know. Do you want me to do it again?

Oh, that’s funny. Okay, just whatever comes out right now is great.

Oh, well, thank you so much for inviting me, Megan. It’s such a pleasure to be here. I really appreciate it.

Pleasure is all mine. I am doing a month-long book club highlighting, spotlighting many of the amazing authors affiliated with the Joa collective who have published their books through Joan of Arc Publishing, as well as those that are connected to the Mose network.

And it has blown my mind. There are some amazing, amazing folks in this community. And Amanda, you fit right in. I know a teeny bit of some of your writings, and I’m really looking forward to sharing you, your message, whatever else you want to share with my listeners. So thanks so much. Let’s just dive right in. I like to turn the time over to you to share your background, your origin story, whatever you feel would be pertinent to where you were, and now where you’re at today—your faith, your faith journey, your family, work, education, background.

That’s a very long question. So it’s like, how do I shorten all of that? But I agree with you. This is an amazing community with incredible women. And there are a few men in our community that we’ve gotten the pleasure to get to know. And it’s truly been a joy of mine. It’s interesting. I never thought I was a writer. Like most of us, I never in a million years thought I would write and publish a book. Years ago I was running—I used to run and own a clothing company called Modbod.

I did that for almost 12 years of my life back when I was Mormon and very Christian in my belief system. And I had this huge like one day just driving—like you’re supposed to write a book—and I’m like, I don’t know how to write. I never thought I would write, so I actually hired a ghostwriter, and I thought I was going to write a book called Love, Loss and Life, something like that.

It just didn’t percolate. And then it kind of continued just to kind of—you know how life evolves—and my life changed and my life evolved, and I went through a faith transition. I left the Mormon religion in 2012, along with leaving my marriage. My children’s dad and I got a divorce the same year I left Mormonism. So it was a really catalystic year for me, and in that, as you know, with most people, you start going through these questions and this evolution of our soul, and what else is possible?

That led me into, ironically, Shamanism. I studied Reiki and Shamanism. And actually, Wicca. I started just wanting to know more. And what else is possible? And as I’m running this clothing business and being a single mom of these young, really beautiful kids that aren’t so young anymore—because this was a little minute ago—things awoke within me of what I’m really here to do.

In 2019 I had a very clear call in a meditation that it was time to close my doors. So I closed my doors, and I was shown that I would understand why later, and that it was time to fulfill my purpose of what I’m here to do. I believe I’m here to assist people in awakening to their true selves, to coming back home to themselves, and that original soul’s blueprint that resides outside of time and space. My first directive, if you will, was to start facilitating retreats, and I wrote and published my first book, Love and the Spaces Between. I took that down, as there are still things I get to learn. It’s a beautiful book, and it was about my relationships and my love that I’ve experienced in my life. They’ve been my biggest teachers.

And then I actually met Kira, who’s our publisher, at a writing workshop. I just felt to go. I’d already written and published this book, but I’m like, maybe there’s another book in me. I had no idea that there was. So I went and sat—oh man, this is probably 2016—sat in this shop here in Utah and met Kira. The minute she walked in, I’m like, I’m supposed to work with this woman. And so I wrote and published my next book, which was Leaving Religion and Those We Leave Behind.

I had done a podcast around that and that one again was another that was inspired. Most of my family at the time was still Mormon and still active, and I was asked again in a meditation—I was shown—that I’m to write this book, and it’s one that would assist people in transitioning from one faith into finding another, you know, now what? Without anger, without animosity, without hate, without attacking. And it ended up being a really, really beautiful process and beautiful healing journey, not only for myself, but for so many that came on my podcast, and then with my book. And now I’m probably writing another one as we speak. So it’s kind of been a fun journey.

Wow! I don’t think I realized you had written that much already. I knew of your book you’re currently writing. It’s a co-writing situation, correct?

No, this is not a co-writing.

Oh, okay. I misunderstood—my apologies.

Yes, that’s a great intro, and I’m blown away, and I want to know all the things. But I’ll have to pick and choose.

That was a lot of word vomit that I just did.

No, it’s perfect. I’m all here for it. So your belief system, would you say, was essentially kind of passed down to you or handed to you from your parents and their parents, and however far back it might go in your family line?

Yep, both sides born and raised Mormon, very, very deep Mormon faith.

How did you—there’s no one single point, right?—but can you share with us some of that process of allowing the questions, the doubts to come in, to releasing things that maybe at one time were absolutes to you, and then you shifted, right? You were evolving. How did you allow that in?

You know, it’s interesting. When I left the Mormon religion I wasn’t asking. My story is a really unique one for the most part. My spiritual journey—or my religious journey—was one that kind of ebbed and flowed, especially in my late teens. But I was very religious, very Mormon, very devout to my faith and to my family and those principles.

But I had gone asleep, you know, like a lot of Mormon women do. I had been playing the role of mom and wife, and my husband was a patriarch of our family, and I had really short hair, and I was just doing the mom thing. Then my husband at the time and I bought a couple of companies, and as I started getting back into business, something started to awaken within my soul, and I didn’t realize I was asleep. That started to unfold some things for me—holy cow, how much have I really been shutting out in my life?

I was teaching gospel doctrine. I was starting to understand more and see more of my husband for who he was, and we were unwinding our marriage. I loved teaching gospel doctrine. It was one of my favorite things. It’s when I first learned that I really love to speak and teach. I was teaching a lesson and went to go bear my testimony, and for those who don’t know religion, your testimony is what you believe is true in the faith. I went to go bear it, and there was nothing left.

The only thing I could bear it in was love and light. And in front of me I saw this staircase on the wall—in my inner vision—and I had this knowing that I was done, that I was graduating, and that there was something more. So I thought, I guess I’m done. Shortly after that the bishop had released me—super coincidentally—from the calling I’d had for a few years.

I later had an experience—it was really hard for my mom that I was leaving. My dad had passed away a couple of years before this. The Mormon faith was a really big deal for her. To answer part of your question of how I allowed for the things to unwind, I sat in the space of love. I knew that the choice I was making was something for me. It was a difficult choice, and I knew it took a lot of courage to make it. I also knew the people around me wouldn’t understand it, and that this was something for me.

This is partly why I was guided to do that podcast Leaving Religion and Those We Leave Behind. I later changed the title, but I could see that when we make the choice to leave, our loved ones are forced to question their own belief system: What do I really believe now? That creates fear, anxiety, doubt, and sometimes attacking or questioning. At the end of the day, I was so clear in what I felt that there was no refuting it. I just held myself in love. I remembered what it was to be Mormon and believe this was the only true church. I could hold people in love, empathy, and understanding, while also holding myself in that same light.

Yeah, your relationship with yourself was so solid and cultivated to the extent that you would basically be denying yourself if you didn’t move forward in the ways that you felt called, in the truth that you were beginning to see. As you said, you had been asleep, and now you were waking up.

That can be scary for those in that space. What would you offer to somebody who’s there right now?

One of the things that I teach often is that it’s important to allow the relationship you once had with God to die. A lot of times we’ll sit in the in-between spaces with spiritual transition. In fact, I’m in another in-between now. The in-between spaces are some of the most stretching, most challenging, and most difficult to be in. When we go from one way of believing—whether in religion or in spiritual practices—what we’ve known and who we’ve known ourselves to be is dying.

Then there’s this in-between space that feels really uncomfortable. I’ve been sick for a couple of weeks; it’s fascinating how the physical body responds because your cells are literally changing. My advice is to allow for it to fully die, and to have patience and grace with yourself. That part of you is dying, that connection—like for me, God died—and it was a painful process, because God was tied to everything.

I remember looking out my windows and seeing everything as gray, muted, without the depth it once had, because it was no longer connected to the God I once knew. I grieved it. I allowed for the grieving to happen, the death to happen, and I knew something would come in its place. Whatever space you’re in, if there’s grieving happening, know that it doesn’t last. The more we attach to or grip the past—even who we used to be—the longer it takes to transition into the new space.

It’s like the more suffering you’re going to introduce into your experience, the longer and tighter you grip the past.

Ironically, that’s an old belief system that many of us hold on to. I did a podcast around that—we live in the shadow of the cross—and deep within our root system and in the earth is this belief that we have to suffer, that suffering is…

And it’s a lie.

We will have pain, because pain pushes until the soul calls. But it’s our attachment that it shouldn’t be that way—or whatever it is—that creates suffering. It’s unnecessary, but we’re so conditioned to believe we must suffer. And it’s a lie.

That is one of the most liberating concepts I’ve learned on this faith expansion journey, this spiritual awakening I’ve been having—releasing that conditioned thinking that suffering is needed. Almost like, if you don’t feel some kind of guilt, shame, or inherent badness, then maybe you’re not doing it right.

That’s the opposite of godliness. But it’s ironic, because that belief keeps us imprisoned in a system we’re asking to break free from.

And okay, I love what you said—allow the relationship you once had, however you understood it, to die. Because something else will replace it. You trusted that.

And something has. Many things have. That’s what my Reimagine podcast for this year is about—focusing on the life that comes after we take those steps into the unknown. That’s what I want to hear from you: what are the moments of joy, bliss, and magic you’ve experienced because you went through that hard, uncomfortable process of letting it die?

Well, I think you already nailed it—it’s the cycle of life. When we allow for things to die, life always comes. In Shamanism, we often talk about allowing hucha to go into the earth, into Pachamama, to be fertilizer for new growth. We are always in a cycle, always in evolution.

I remember years ago, when I left Mormonism, I thought one day I’d “arrive,” have all the answers, be at my mountaintop. And then I realized—yes, you reach a mountaintop, and then there’s another to climb. Of course we designed it that way—to have these climbs and peaks where we can look back and think, “Wow, look at the person I’ve become. I love who I am now.”

For me, there’s joy in every moment now, even when I’m in a deep pocket of growth. I understand things are literally moving out of my cells, and I’m stepping more into my God self. I believe part of what we’re here to do is awaken our Christed self—that resurrection is re-emerging within all of us, and that we are all gods in creation.

When we understand that every moment serves us somehow, there is joy and bliss in every moment. Contraction always comes before expansion, and the expansion is always magnificent and beautiful.

I love this idea of continual resurrection, continual rebirth. The more we surrender, the more we thank past beliefs and release them, the more we open to the next peak to climb.

For someone unfamiliar with Shamanism, how would you describe it?

Shamans are mapmakers. We travel between worlds and dimensions. Shamans have existed since the dawn of time—medicine men and women deeply connected to the earth, but also to other realms. We can travel between dimensions.

I’m also an NLP practitioner, so I work in both the analytical and the magical—the quantum physics side and the mystery. Shamanism is essentially dancing between the realms.

How did you know this was your calling?

When God was dying for me and I left Mormonism, I knew there was still something greater. I put a call out to the universe: I’d walk through any door presented to me, and if I didn’t like what was on the other side, I could walk back out. Shamanism came into my life right after that.

Every time I’ve asked, I’ve received an answer. I’m here to guide people back home to themselves. I’ve had opportunities, like a TED Talk on finding your soul’s blueprint, that deepened my knowing. Often it’s about unwinding the trauma and stories we’ve told ourselves so we can see our truth.

What does working with you look like?

Right now I take very few individual clients. I mostly work with groups and with women. I co-facilitate a company called Embody You—we teach embodiment practices, because the body is the key to ascension, and most women are disconnected from their physical, emotional, and mental bodies.

I’m also creating a training program that will certify people in NLP and our embodied method, which teaches the energetics along with the analytical, working with all four bodies. It’s about doing your own healing work while becoming a practitioner.

Final question—what does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt?

The irony is, you are both your liberator and your captor. We create our own cages through our thoughts and stories—even the shadows of doubt are just thoughts. When you reimagine your world and ruminate on what’s possible, you create that reality. There’s so much science behind it now; it’s not just a spiritual idea—it’s real.

We create our own cages. Anything not of light, freedom, or liberation is a lie—but there’s a lot to learn from it.

Let’s end with a few rapid-fire fun questions.

Favorite book?
Two: Anna, Grandmother of Jesus (read it only if you feel called—it’s life-changing) and The Game of Life and How to Play It.

Introvert or extrovert?
Both. I love people but need to recharge.

Favorite artist?
I don’t have one—art is everywhere.

Morning lark or night owl?
Night owl.

Celebrity crush?
None.

Favorite beverage?
Sparkling water. When I lived in Germany, I loved Apfelsaftschorle—apple juice with sparkling water.

Furthest place you’ve traveled?
Croatia or Germany—probably Croatia.

Where can people connect with you?
On Instagram: amandajoy.loveland (with periods), and at amandajoyloveland.com. From there, you can also find Embody You (spelled with two I’s: IMBO.DI.YOU).

Thank you so much for your time.

It’s been a pleasure.

I’ve learned so much.

Blessings to you.

Thank you—likewise.