Episode 174: Shamanism is the Internal Compass with Katie Jo

Well, hey, Katie Jo, how are you today?

Good. Thank you. I’m so excited to have you have your undivided attention for about the next 30, 35 min. Here we go.

So loving getting to know you a little bit better. And I’m so appreciative that you jumped on board to be a part of this month-long Joa Book Club to share more about your journey, and who you are. Kind of the books that you have written, are writing, will write, and just kind of your association with Joa Collective and Mose Network. So welcome. Thanks for taking.

Thank you. Thank you. I’m excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. So let’s just start out with you taking some time to introduce yourself to everybody and share with us your background. Who you are, what you do, your family, faith—all of that.

So my name is Katie Jo, and I am a three-time bestselling author. I am an international public speaker, and I am a professional artist. I am most well known for being called the Drum Circle Goddess. I have done drum circles across the globe, and I teach a nine-month comprehensive Shamanic course, as well as sound healing training. My drum circles have been as large as 10,000, live-broadcast to 106 nations.

What? Girl. I did not know this. I’m so glad I’m doing these interviews. Wow, okay, we’re going to dive a little deeper here.

You’ve written books already?

I’ve written and co-written four books. My passion project is the one that when we met at the Joa that I really discussed. It’s called The Untold Stories of Motherhood. And it’s gathering women’s stories of what it’s like to be mothers. Our experiences, and really just sharing the voice of, in many ways, the voiceless. And that really comes off of the statistic that currently in the United States and the Western world, 85% of books, media, journalism, movies, sitcoms—everything—is written by males, particularly cisgendered patriarchal males, white men usually. And that’s a really fair statistic compared to all of history, which is closer to 99%.

So the reason that I feel like it’s important to start sharing stories of what it’s like to be a woman—what it’s like to be a mother especially—is because everything that we’ve been told or taught, and everything that’s been portrayed or conditioned us as to what a woman and mother is has been fed to us by those who have never been. It would be as if every book that’s ever been written on flying a plane wasn’t written by pilots. And so it matters because those archetypes, if you will, that have been projected onto the psyche as to what this is, or should feel like, are damaging to all genders.

It is.

When half of the population is unable to say, “This is what it’s really like,” that’s a problem. Even now, with the statistics being 85%, that’s better than it’s been. But it’s time that everyone—whoever they are, wherever they stand, whatever platform they are on—can say, “This is what it’s like to be me. Don’t you speak for me. I’ll speak for me.”

Yeah.

Has the ability to do so. So that’s really what I would say my passion project is.

So you said, this is a compilation of stories. So it’s going to come from multiple?

Yes, we had an anthology, and it was really phenomenal stories of women who are mothers who have experienced things like child loss, miscarriage, kids on drugs, being parents to special needs children, military moms, postpartum stories, what it’s like to not have children in a community—predominantly Utah—where so much identity of whether or not you are a woman is based on whether or not you have children.

It was really powerful. Powerful stories, because it’s important that beyond what we see portrayed on Instagram reels and influencer feeds about what being a woman and a mother is, we say, “This is how it felt for me. This is what it was like for me.”

One of the coolest stories is of a woman who gave her daughter up for adoption as a teenager, and then never could have guessed that she would never be able to have children after. She’s now in her fifties, and they connected. They have a relationship now. Another story I love is of a woman who grew up in a horrific, abusive childhood, much of it perpetuated by her mother. She shares what it’s like to heal the mother wound. At the end of her mother’s life, she took her into her home and cared for her for the last two years.

So when you say this is your passion project, is this still in the works?

We have two versions of the books published. It was always meant to be continual, because it’s important.

Is this something that Joa puts out?

Yes, before Joa was Joa, when it was under another name, it was one of their first books published. I did all of the artwork in the book, and the publisher, CEO Kiara, is actually the image on the front—hugging her child.

Well, if there is a third edition, I’d love to be a part of it as a voice of a mother of a transgender child.

Wait, wait!

It’s an important voice that is so often spoken for by others.

Yeah, and every part of that group is also individual. You can’t stereotype any human.

Yeah. What a beautiful project. Thanks for sharing. Wow, you have quite the spiritual resume.

I don’t know about that.

Can you share a little bit more about your faith, your spiritual journey? Was it passed down?

I was born and raised in Utah, in the LDS faith. My parents truly lived what they believed—reading scriptures daily, helping widows, telling the truth, family time. While I no longer align with all of it, I honor them for their integrity.

How did you find drum circling and Shamanism?

One of the best things my parents taught me was to live what I believe—even if I believe differently than them. I struggled with aspects of religion: judgmental, patriarchal, fear-based, perfection-based teachings. As a teen, I felt I could never be “good enough.” I made mistakes, including becoming a pregnant teen.

When my daughter was born, I decided I would not teach her a wrathful God. I didn’t know exactly what I believed, but I taught her there is something out there that loves you no matter what. I call it the “sunbeam level” of God—unconditional love, a light at the end of the tunnel.

I didn’t realize I was laying a foundation for myself. Years later, pregnant with my third, my two-year-old son died unexpectedly in just 11 hours. At the hospital, I had an out-of-body experience with a being of light who told me, “This was always part of the plan.” That began my deep unraveling and search for meaning.

Shamanism resonated because it’s the world’s oldest spirituality and not against anything. It’s about observing what is, learning from nature, and trusting intuition. I practice substance-free spirituality. It’s about daily listening, noticing, and asking, “What is this teaching me?”

You use all your senses—listening, feeling, loving—to determine your next steps. You speak in prose.

Totally.

I’m fascinated. I call my own journey a spiritual awakening. It’s like being a child again—curious, open, nonjudgmental.

Exactly. My youngest son once ran joyfully into the arms of his flamboyantly dressed older brother in a conservative Utah restaurant. The room’s judgment turned to smiles. He simply saw, “That’s Yaya.” That’s the natural human way before conditioning.

I could listen to you all day.

Well, now you know a bit more about me.

I can’t wait to read more of your work. So—what does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt?

We must have shadow to understand light. Beyond the shadow, for me, means living in curiosity rather than absolutes. The only absolute I live by is: “I will do my best with what I know at the time.”

I love that. A lot of food for thought. Let’s do some fun rapid-fire questions.

Favorite book? Journey of Souls by Michael Newton.

Introvert or extrovert? Introvert.

Morning or night? Morning—I like the dark quiet before sunrise.

Favorite artist? Georgia O’Keeffe—for how she lived.

Celebrity crush? None.

Water or soda? Water—I quit soda 20 years ago.

Furthest place traveled? India—to speak at the Women’s Economic Forum and do humanitarian work in the Himalayas.

That’s amazing. If folks want to connect, how can they find you?

KatieJoDrum.com.

We’ll leave that in the show notes. Thank you, Katie. You’re a beautiful soul.

Thank you for inviting me.