Episode 113: Where am I needed? with Lauren Jones

“Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Beyond the Shadow of Doubt podcast today. I am looking forward to this chat that we’ll have and that you’ll get to know my friend, Lauren Jones.

Lauren, I was thinking about it, you and I, we haven’t met in person yet, but I’ve known you a couple of years, maybe more, maybe two and a half years by now.

Yes. It’s been a while.

Me, like many others, I’m sure who listen to Listen, Learn, and Love or to some of the other Faith Matters podcasts and whatnot, they have met you before. So I’m thrilled that I get to have you and your story here recorded on my podcast. So welcome.

Thank you. So excited.

Yeah, I’m grateful to have you here. Without getting too much to your story, I remember my heart going out to you and just being so drawn to your story because you were one of the very first people, I think the first person that I ever became aware of who was, Lauren, you identify as transgender, and you were baptized into the LDS faith. And so that will come out over the course of our conversation, but I’ve been in this space for going on almost, well, about four and a half years now.

And so stories such as yours always tug at my heart, and I’m always drawn to them. So I’m grateful to learn more firsthand from you. But before we get to that, can you just take a minute and introduce yourself to our listeners, you know, share where you’re from, about your upbringing, your family, anything that you feel comfortable sharing? We would love to hear.

Yeah, so my name is Lauren, and I currently live in New Mexico, in Las Cruces. And I, for most of, well, my childhood up through going to undergrad school, I grew up in a military family. So I fell over the US and in Europe. So for high school, I went to five different high schools. I got to do a lot of awesome traveling, got to, and I also am a big runner as well. Like I did cross country and track for my undergrad school. And I still am a very competitive runner. And I practice as a mental health therapist as well.”

“That’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that with us. So we know where you’re at right now.

Can you rewind a little bit? Tell us a little bit about what your religious or your spiritual upbringing was like.

So for me, I grew up Catholic. My mom and my dad practiced Catholicism. I would say pretty strongly.

In middle school, I went to a… Most people don’t know this, but I went to a Catholic middle school for a few years when I lived in Florida. And Catholicism, you know, it has its place.

While I would say later on in my life, it provided negative feedback for me.

Do you feel comfortable talking about what you mean by that?

So something, one of the, you know, a big, like I would say, a traumatic moment is when I was really, I was like on the verge of coming out or I was pretty much forced out, I guess, because my parents found out, you know, that I was on hormones and transitioning, doing all that stuff. And it led to a big traumatic event in my life that I ended up being in the hospital. And one of the things that my dad said to me that I’ll never forget is, have you prayed about it or have you gone to church?

And that was very off-putting to me. And I will never forget looking into his face and being like, running is my church. Because running has always been there for me and has been an escape in some ways.

And so from that point on, I just didn’t have any spiritual, religious talk. I just would not participate or I found triggering at that point. And that was like in 2018.

Okay, so when this experience happened, you were out of your childhood home. You were over 18.

So your dad said, have you prayed about it or gone to church? And your response was running as my church. And from that point, you didn’t really talk about religion or spirituality. In general or with anybody.

I just, anytime anybody would try to take me even because the typical thing of let’s go to church on Easter and Christmas. And I would refuse. I just would not want to go because at all. And it was just one thing that I just never thought that I didn’t like. So I immediately someone thrusted a negative feedback or religion on me from just me being myself.

So, yeah, I’m sure that was really difficult to navigate and hard to swallow. So, you know, everybody’s faith journey is different. Some people are going to call it different, different things, different vocabulary words for similar concepts is how I view it. The divine, the power greater than us all, God, the universe, right? And some people participate in religion, some do not. So you grew up in the Catholic faith and you had this experience and you distanced yourself from it.

And that was approximately, I don’t know, sounds like about seven years ago, six years ago. So can you give us a little context then for, you know, there’s this kind of gap here. Can you fill that in for us?

Because I mean, now you are a member of LDS faith and practicing and so on. So that’s a big.

So I ended up having to go in 2019 in the around the fall time to residential facility for eating disorder. And in that space, because it’s not just me, it’s me and four other girls. And there was one girl there who was very spiritual, very Christian, always read her Bible, always prayed, always wanted to talk and super open about her faith.

And at the time, she like because it was triggering to me, like when people would just read their Bible, like in the in the open areas, right? And he would always like read her Bible in the middle. And I found it really triggering.

And of course, like because on her end, she was really like, you know, I can say this now because her and I are best friends. She was she she has her viewpoints about LGBT stuff. And it’s sort of valid.

So she also found me a little bit triggering, I guess, but not in a way or said mean stuff to each other. It was all original and we were nice to each other and all that. And then after months of getting to know, like a few more months later, her and I ended up becoming best friends.

We would joke around together, talk together, everyone saying, do you want to build a snowman together? She ended up becoming one of my closest friends. And I still, even though she’s no longer here on Earth anymore, she is like a person that I think about every day that I go into church.

Anyways, that’s like jumping ahead a little bit. But she, for the end of our stay, she decided, she was like, Lauren, once we get out, I want to invite you to come to church with me. And you can just sit there and whatever and if you like it or not, it’s cool. So I ended up going and I really loved it. And it was like, it wasn’t an LDS Church.

It was just like a Christian church where there’s more singing and more of like a concert aisle of a church, which was cool. In Tempe, like there was, cause I was still able to go to the younger, like the college church, the ASU church. So I did that for, I went there like three times.

And then of course COVID happened. So then there was, you know, it was all shut down. So yeah, she.

So this wasn’t an LDS Church. This wasn’t a Mormon slash Christian, okay.

And yeah.

So can I pause you just for a minute? That’s really interesting to me, Lauren. I don’t, I haven’t heard this part of your story where, you know, her, you both triggered one another, so to speak, in certain ways, the religion, the observances that you saw her participate in while you were both in the center.

“That was hard for you. And she, as you said, had her kind of preconceived ideas about LGBTQ plus individuals. And so that was something that was, I don’t know, you said triggering, you know, hard for her, I guess.

But you obviously came through that. You worked through that and learned to love and accept each other, like because of those parts of your identities, not in spite of, right? Can you share a little bit about how you were able to do that?

Yeah. So for me, I think the biggest thing is she was just, and it kind of makes me a little bit sad, like talking about her, because she was like just generally kind thing, always wanted to be there and help people, didn’t matter, always wanted to talk. Even when we were both out and like she came over for pizza and we both went to a park and she just would want to talk to the random people that were struggling or out on the street and just talk and just be kind and loving.

“And for me, it showed that people of a strong faith can be loving and accepting and is all that love there. And there is, it changed my opinion or my mind on a lot of things and it made me just become a little bit more, cause I had my experiences which were valid, right? But also it allowed me to show like to see that there’s people out there that just truly love people.

And it showed me that like they’re like, yes, we can still have our differences and what we, what our preferences are or whatever they may be and still care for other. Like, and that’s one thing for me that I just, I really want to, you know, that I make sure to live, you know, having my personality is just, I even as in my profession, I am just here to help people no matter what. And even as a person walking, going for walks and going for runs, just trying my best to talk to other people and love other people because, yeah.

“Yeah. So thank you for sharing that. Obviously you cannot speak for your dear friend, but did she, you said that she moved past her, her initial misgivings or discomfort, you know, about, you didn’t use the word discomfort, just her knowing that you were, you identified as LGBTQ+.

How did she come to a place or did she share that with you? Or she just fully loved and accepted you?

I mean, I think her main thing that she was, she just was like, and I know I asked her this one time, which I remember is like, I was like, so if I got married, would you come, like, would you attend it? And she was like, probably not, just because of my faith. And I was like, okay, that’s valid.

Yeah, cause she was like, I don’t know the best way to say this, but very Christian, if that.

She practiced her beliefs very strongly, I guess. I hear you, I hear what you’re saying. But I’m glad that you were both able to find a common space in your love for one another and your respect for each other’s way that you chose to move forward in life.

So then you said that COVID hit going back to your journey, you had attended this church of your friends about three times and then COVID hit.

Yeah, so with that, I was gearing up for the end of me graduating from my graduate program at GCU, so I was having to starting to look for big girl jobs as I like to call it. And one of the places that unexpectedly came on the list was Utah because I was planning to have gender affirming surgery up there at the U of U. And I took a trip there in May of 2020.

“And I just fell in love with it.

With the state?

Yeah, with Utah. I loved everything about it. And then I decided to move to Utah with knowing this many people Zero, okay. And I was like, well, first I get to start anew and I get to have a surgery that helps me feel like myself. So I decided to do that.

And then after living there and then finally having my, cause I lived in Harriman, then I finally had my surgery in March 8th of 2021, actually International Women’s Day, which is such an awesome, like it’s an awesome thing that my surgery ended up falling on that day. And so while I was in the hospital, I decided to apply to jobs in Logan after living in Harriman for a few months. And I ended up getting a job in Logan, Utah.

“I moved there in April of 2021. And then that’s really where the journey to joining the LDS faith really started.

In Logan?

Mm-hmm.

Is that where you met missionaries and you started to attend? And tell us about that.

I knew I wanted a faith back in my life, like a lot, especially when after me and my friend, like went to church for those few times and just kind of, and then her gift be a Bible and me kind of reading it every once in a while. And then of course COVID, so it just made everything really difficult. And then I started, then of course, all my, most of my coworkers were a part of the faith or my healthcare providers were a part of the faith as well.

Part of the LDS faith. And so I decided to go on to the church’s website actually and send them a text instead of typical them knocking on my door, because they never came to my door. It was only these older elders that came, but they were, yeah, anyways.

“And so I ended up getting in contact with the sister missionaries in Logan.

Did you start taking the discussions at that point? Or I don’t think you were baptized there if I remember your story. You were baptized later on.

Yeah, I was baptized later on. But so what happened is, and I know they don’t mind I say their names, but Jasmine and Maya, of course I couldn’t call them that at the time because of, you know, being sister, but anyways, they, those two were the first two sister missionaries ever to come to my door and to talk and to have all the discussions, all the things. And then the one time where we had to have, it wasn’t even like the LGBT talk.

It was more of like just having a really deep conversation to the point where all of us were crying that same in that time.

About LGBTQ plus issues or?

Not really. It was more about just because there was just so much spirit in the room and there was just so emotional like energy, I guess, in the room. And so, of course, we talked about, and it was also cool as the Relief Society president, she came to my apartment a couple of times as well.

And we just had all these amazing talks. And then I decided just because I wasn’t liking my job in Logan, to move back to Arizona. And so I moved back to Arizona.

And that’s where the whole baptism journey really started.

Was that something you pursued, or did you just happen to run into folks and pitch in?

Well, I pursued it because I knew I saw something I wanted, because I’ll never forget that first night that the sisters gave me the Book of Mormon. And I read the first chapter, I believe, that night. And it just felt super right to me immediately.

No questions asked. I just love it a lot to the point now I have four copies in my apartment, which is so great.

What do you think was it that really touched you? That’s sweet of you to share this part with us. You said you never forgot that night.

Yeah, for me, because one of the things that I struggle with mental health-wise is feeling alone by myself, not feeling loved, not feeling authentic love. And so one thing of reading about Nephi and his unprecedented hope and love for the spirit, and even further reading into the Book of Mormon of having foundation in the Lord, enduring to the end, those quotes, I guess, or scriptures are very beneficial for me to help stay here, to stay.

They speak to you.

Yeah, and just how genuinely I’m loving everybody that I have met since even before I joined now as a member, how everybody just has been super awesome to me and just showed me amazing love. So it just brings a lot of, I don’t know, it brings a lot of happiness and goodness for me. That’s why I really make it a point even if I am like, of course those mornings of tired or just don’t want to go and then I force myself to go and I’m like, see, that was good.

Beneficial.

So you’ve said more than once how wonderfully you have felt and been treated by many of those of the LDS faith along the way of your journey. Just a minute ago and talking about, you know, while you were in Arizona, everyone was amazing. Can you share with us a little bit about what that was like?

You know, you’re introduced to this new faith community, you, you pursued baptism and.

You know, how, what was that like, help us understand what that was like? Because surely there were those, you mentioned those that just embraced you and loved you. Perhaps there were those who it didn’t happen that way.

If you feel comfortable giving us an idea, a picture of a little bit of both sides, like what was that like navigating this pathway to baptism for you?

So for me, of course, just so people know, like the biggest, like the thing after, you know, the sister that the missionaries invite you for baptism because of being, being trans or whatever, you know, they have to write a letter and the letter has to be sent to Salt Lake City and it has to be approved by the prophet. And so, like in January of 2022, that’s when they invited me to be baptized. And then they and the mission president wrote the letter and sent it to Utah.

And then from January to June, I had to wait, which is a very, very long time.

Did they tell you the purpose of the wait?

Not really. It was just, it was just a lot of just being patient and just waiting. There wasn’t, there was not a lot of like, because I, you know, I could talk, like, I only could check in with the sisters every once in a while, but it’s not like they, you know, I really knew much either.

I knew they were doing their best. So during that whole wait from January to June, it was me, like, leaning into going to all the events, being asked to participate in all the things. And during that time, I also had an experience where I had to go to the hospital for mental health stuff because I just, like, was getting so just very impatient, I guess was the word about having to wait for so long.

And then, and this what kind of leads to my chosen family. And so one of my sister, my ministering sisters at the time, because I was in the hospital, they came and visited me. And then one of them was like, Lauren, what you need is to just come stay with me for a week to help relax and just immediately showed me super amount of love and just wanting just knowing that I’m most cared about.

And just everybody in my, I mean, everybody in my ward. It was like, or still is like amazingly kind and awesome to me. Even the bishop that I had who was a older gentleman.

Every time I got a blessing from him, he always used the correct pronouns. He never said anything or whatever. It was just a, he was awesome.

I mean, and then to the negative side, honestly, no one has ever said something negative to me or in person or yeah, or if they have behind me back, I don’t know, but no one has. I’ve been just shown a lot of love.

Yeah, which is really amazing for me and all the people from Utah to Arizona and New Mexico. Just super awesome.

Thank you for being willing to let us open the door into your heart and hear about how this journey has been for you. And kind of giving us a bird’s-eye view to what that was like. If you were to have any advice or suggestions for other ward communities, those in, let me say in congregations, we’ll say congregations throughout not just the states, but anywhere, what would your suggestions be on how to help someone who might be like you, meaning identify as transgender?

What is it that that person would benefit the most from? How can they help that individual feel welcome?

Yeah, I mean, I definitely will say like, just being, just showing, just showing love, just as Jesus showed love to everybody else. And just being respectful of someone’s pronouns and where they’re at. And, you know, speaking on from my experience of coming from a place where there was little to no acceptance within my blood family, while also finding a place where, at least this is what I feel, where there’s so much love and acceptance within the church.

And the church, you know, yes, I still struggle with my mental health stuff every once in a while. And I validate that while also I know there has been a lot of healing since I have joined the church. And, you know, in someone that’s just wanting to, you know, that’s LGBTQ+, or struggling with anything like any other things in life, like just knowing that there’s people or a higher power that care about you, that no one is ever alone, even though it may feel like it sometimes.

So that’s just kind of my…

You mentioned respecting pronouns. And, you know, I understand why that’s a meaningful thing for someone to do. Can you share why is that important to you?

“I know you can’t speak for all of those who might identify as non-binary or transgender, but for those that are kind of new maybe to this area, like why is that important? What is that message that it sends when someone uses your pronouns?

I guess for me, it makes me feel like you see me for me. You’re not, and I guess this is from my own past experiences, but you’re not going based off of what someone looks like or your preconceptions. You’re just seeing somebody as what they’re wearing or what they look like, and you’re just like, those are your pronouns, and I respect those.

I don’t know, for me, it’s just a form of respect, that’s all.

Yeah, I like that. You’re just willing, as you said, you see me for me, not because of external things, but you’re willing to look at who I am on the inside versus what I’m wearing or going off of other ideas or information or even misinformation that they may have. One reason I started this podcast is because on a faith journey, I have yet to meet anybody who hasn’t had questions or concerns or doubts come up for them in some way, right?

At some point in their journey. So I like to just normalize that it’s not a problem to have questions and doubts. As a matter of fact, they help refine our faith.

They help make it stronger and even expand our faith and our understanding of God. Can you share a time or maybe more than one where you have had some questions, some doubts, and how you, how did you work through those or what was that like for you?

I will say this past year, like I’ll never forget one of the sister missionaries sitting on my couch in Mesa, Arizona, telling me, Lauren, the year, the first year that you’re baptized is going to be the hardest year ever. I will never forget that. So, leading forward to 2023, that year, yes, I did some fun things in the middle in it, and I validate that, while also I had to change jobs suddenly.

I had a heart attack.

I remember that.

And having to go to not just the hospital for physical stuff, but also the hospital for mental health stuff, and just how much of the struggle has been of trying to figure out where is my place? Like, where am I needed? Like, I thought, you know, and, you know, being like, and I love the women in my ward currently, while also just trying to figure out a place that feels like where I can get my needs met in terms of, you know, I will say, just being social, going to go do stuff with people.

There’s just been a lot of struggle here of trying to find my place. So that has kind of like, I guess, maybe a little bit.

Like as a single person who would like to have companionship.

Yeah, a single woman. You know, of course, I have my job as a therapist, while also just someone, just people to go do stuff. And for me, as much as I love my friends that are not a part of the same church, while also I like having friends in church because like we can go do the same things and not feel “anxious about going to go do something where you feel like not cool.

So that’s just kind of, I think that’s a part of this year is that’s been this past, this since being back here has just been trying to find my place. I mean, and every time I’ve had those little bit of questions, I make sure that I read to my Book of Mormon or just go talk to the bishop or talk to my therapist or just go to church and that, and for me, because I know the big thing that keeps me still physically here is my resiliency. And I realize that a lot because I keep showing up, even though there’s times where I don’t want to, but you know, still here.

Yeah, that cannot be understated. That takes courage and strength. Keep showing up.

Thank you for sharing that with us, Lauren. I appreciate your being willing to be vulnerable. I think we’re all trying to find our place.

And I say that still acknowledging that your needs and your situation are unique. And I know that God is aware of you. And I know that God will continue to guide you on this next exciting, you know, leg of your journey.

A minute ago, you said, since being back here, I knew what you meant, but our listeners don’t realize that you did your undergrad in Las Cruces. And so I think that’s what she meant. You’re back there again.

So one of the things I like to kind of wrap up my interview, one of the questions is, sometimes growing up in conservative faith communities, you hear people when they’re bearing their testimony or they’re witnessing of what they have learned to be true. They’ll use the term Beyond the Shadow of Doubt. And I kind of liked to do a play on words and I dropped the word A beyond the shadow of a doubt to Beyond the Shadow of Doubt, because I’m trying to move past the negative, the negativity maybe, the shame associated with having doubts, you know, making it okay.

We all have them. And so bringing that doubt, those questions out of the shadows and let’s examine them. Let’s look at them.

And so my question that I like to wrap up with is, tell me what does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt?

So for me, that definitely means really being true to my heart, my soul, and to who I am as a person. You know, in this journey of being myself and also finding a faith that feels comfortable for me, it has, you know, it has really provided a place to help me, you know, going back to staying here, being my authentic self, being who, being the person that can always, you know, I used to be a really shy person, and now I am the person that you need to tell shh when it’s time to be quiet. I am very talkative.

I am very, you know, I know people, you know, like I have pink hair. I know people can’t see that, but like I have pink hair. I love being seen. I love being noticed. I like talking to people. I mean, it just means to me just being myself and knowing that God loves me no matter what.

God sees me and I’ll share like this past yesterday. It was a moment where I knew, like I felt God being like, Lauren, I got you when I was going into this week with bad vibes, just being honest. And this week has, yesterday has helped me so much.

And just knowing that I can, you know, me attending church or me reading the Book of Mormon or talking to friends, being myself has all played into this journey for me. So, yeah.

And when you’re talking about this moment yesterday where you really felt God communicating to you, that I’ve got you, I see you, you’re referring to, I don’t know if you mentioned it just yet. You did off record to me before we started, but that you’ll be moving to the East Coast soon. That’s what you’re referring to.

Yeah. I can see how an experience like that would make you feel very seen, very heard, very loved. Anything else that you, any final thoughts that you would “like to leave?

I think my biggest thing is just, I honestly, this is just for me and my experience alone. I love the church a lot. It has provided so much love and care for me.

And people have just loved, just showed a lot of love to me and been there for me and not immediately jump to conclusions or thoughts and just, you know, and I’m coming to church to just for my testimony and just knowing that, you know, and help healing my stuff. And that, you know, especially moments like yesterday where it shows me that, you know, he sees me, so, yeah.

I’m definitely seeing this pattern, Lauren. You feel very strongly. You know what you feel inside and you follow that.

Mm-hmm.

“You know your truth on the inside and you listen. And that’s a beautiful quality to have. So thank you for sharing about you and how that has been helping us to see how that has been something that’s defined your life and continues to.

Just really quickly, I have a few for fun questions for our listeners to get to know you in a different way, just some favorites and stuff. Would you consider yourself an introvert or an extrovert?

Extrovert.

And do you have a favorite book?

Yeah, that’s it.

Favorite artist?

Taylor Swift and ATEEZ, a K-pop band.

Okay, awesome. What about, are you a night owl or a morning lark?

I’m a morning person.

Do you have a celebrity crush?

No, not really.

That’s fine. And do you do still or carbonated water? Or do you do diet soda?

I’m a Dr. Pepper kind of girl.

Dr. Pepper. Okay, that’s got me too. You know, they’re based here in Dallas, so I drink a lot of that.

And then finally, you did mention you’ve traveled a lot because of your upbringing. Where is the furthest place you’ve traveled?

I mean, maybe the furthest north, but I lived in Norway. And then I did a church back then where I was, I guess, unknowingly, I signed up to be a part of a church group to build playground equipment in Bulgaria. So I went to Bulgaria.

Way back in high school.

That is way cool. How fun. Well, if folks wanted to reach out to you with questions or whatever, what would be the easiest way for them?

Instagram, Facebook, email?

My Instagram.

Your Instagram, okay. Fast Girl Runner. We’ll leave that in the show notes.

Lauren, it has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time and for sharing your beautiful soul with us.

Yeah, thank you. Good to see you.

You too.