Episode 91: There is more to me than just what you see, with Kristine Coons

MEAGAN: Welcome to the Beyond. The shadow of doubt. Podcast thrilled that you took time out of your busy schedule to join me today.

today’s episode has a very special guest. Yesterday was transgender day of remembrance, and I have been interviewing

several guests that are in the intersection of the transgender community or families and faith, and it has been so enlightening. so.

eye opening, mind opening. I myself am a parent of a kiddo who identifies as transgender, and I have learned so very much.

And so I have Christine coons here with me to day. Thank you so much, Christine, for taking time to chat with me to day.

Kristine Coons- Thank you.

MEAGAN: I’m honored, and I’m so looking forward to this. So, to start with, please take a moment to introduce yourself to our listeners all the things that you feel define, Christine. And as detailed as you’d like, or however, you would like to to do that.

Kristine Coons- Heavens! How would I define Christine? Well, myself? Well, I am a physician. I am a doctor of internal medicine. I’ve been practicing for about 10 years, and I certainly say that’s one thing that

helps define me. Certainly not the only thing. I am married happily married with 4 amazing children who also happened to be all of them on the autism spectrum which creates its own unique challenges in life Yes, life challenges that will come along for the ride. and

I am also a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and still have an active faith in Jesus Christ.

and I would say, that certainly is a lot of summing up of what I who I am. I am transgender and I also am intersex which is something that didn’t materialize until later in my life and didn’t understand until I did a lot of work in understanding more about myself. And that is certainly something that has helped me understand more about myself, but not just myself, but others around me. and as I have dived into the world of genetics.

I have sincerely appreciated the incredible diversity and beauty of the transgender community. the differences of sexual development, community

and just seeing the diversity of humankind for what it is that these differences that we experience are

is part of who we are as as humans. And it’s incredible. It’s beautiful. And that’s something I really appreciated over the past year.

MEAGAN: So that is amazing. I don’t know where to start. just a little tiny bit more of your background. So you are currently Lds. Were you raised? Lds,

Kristine Coons- I am my parents. I grew up in Western Washington.

Okay, hi, mom, is a a convert. And really, actually, I would say, they have an incredible faith journey as well and a lot of it has to stem around from my next older brother. He’s actually my half brother.

My family is a family of haemophiliacs leaders.

and this is an era of the 19 eighties when HIV. Was still kind of it was scary. It was taboo. It was just hitting the headlines and causing lots of fear.

My next older brother contracted HIV. From a blood transfusion after a tonsillectomy. And so my early life was centred around my next older brother, who was back and forth from the National Institute of Health.

and my parents working to navigate a world that was very much fearful of my brother and our family and yet, in the midst of all that they have maintained faith.

and I think that also has translated down to me. And those experiences helped me to understand more about what are the people are are going through?

MEAGAN: Wow! I remember that fear and the kind of the scare that that went throughout society in the eighties

surrounding HIV aids.  wow! I’m sure you learned a lot from witnessing your brother’s journey.

If we could, I would. I would love to focus on your journey has a person of faith. a person who was raised in the Lds church.

You said your mom converted, but you were raised in the Church

and your identity, I on a mission to normalize our faith journeys that everybody’s as different.

There’s not one that is better than another, or more preferred or prescribed. They’re all beautiful in their own way.

and no. It was when I learned I was the parent of an Lgbtq plus child, specifically one who identified as transgender.

I experienced a lot of shame and resistance around having these doubts and these questions. It took me a long time to acknowledge them, because the words apostate, or you know your

turning against your faith, those types of thoughts and feelings

surfaced for me. I no longer feel that way.

but I have found this to be a really fascinating area of discussion, to talk about people’s faith journey. So I’d love to hear you share about how that

has played a role in your faith journey, and you know I can see you. I, my guests, will get a picture of you on my social and on my

and on spotify. But you’re obviously transitioned now. I I would love if you could share how that came about, and

what that process has been like.

Kristine Coons- Well, I will start out with my younger years. I always knew that I was in some form or another a girl. And I started questioning that really young I my earliest recollections, is about 7, 8 years old. and vesting myself doubting myself about I am. I’m not really. I’m not a boy

and As I grew older I participated in the church. I was active.

I served a mission, and it was always one of those things in the back of the, you know, reading through handbooks and discussions through leaders and things like that, you know, they always talked about. You know, Austin. Parties don’t, don’t cross dress, don’t present as the opposite sex. And there was this kind of this fear about this idea of somebody presenting as somebody you know of the opposite quote, unquote opposite gender.

And so I have really tried focusing on the the key aspects of of the gospel.

Maybe if I followed those things as strictly as I possibly could, that somehow or another this would go away. I was constantly praying. I was constantly fasting. I was constantly looking for answers to through Scripture, through prayer, through anything I can get my hands on to try to understand myself better. In the midst of all that of course I was working, you know.

trying to stay hidden in my family. I was very quiet.

and, to be honest, a lot of limelight was on my brother. There was a lot of tension focused around him. And, to be honest. I was okay. With that.

I really didn’t want all this attention on myself, but there were a few times where I was caught cross dressing or questioned, and later on in life I was actually even able to ask my parents if they they kind of knew.

And my mom said, Yeah, we kind of suspected this wasn’t necessarily a surprise per se.

but there was certainly hints and things throughout my early childhood that raised that question. So as I made my way through this journey, I always constantly doubt him

by myself, like, how do I fit in with this? And I found that one of the things that helped me through all this turmoil in my brain was to push myself to overwork myself, to constantly be thinking.

I I’ve frequently I compared gender dysphoria for myself to wearing a a set of headphones, and back in the 1980 s. And 1990 S. When you didn’t have any reception on your TV, there was a static

that you constantly heard, or you turned your radio out of tune. and you heard this static and these headphones I could never take off. They were constantly there, and the static was always going.

and after a period of time that static just wears you down. It’s a constant, just rain on your system. Sometimes it’s louder, sometimes it’s softer, but it’s always there. and what I tried to do was just push myself through school as hard as I could, just to have a distraction.

Hence why, I went into medicine, not just because of my brother and our family history of bleeding disorder, but to try to counteract what was going on in my head.

So I. So I served a mission.

One of the amazing things that happened in my life was meeting my wife Laura. We met at BYU and we. We were fast friends, the very first semester that we met and inseparable shortly thereafter and people could see that the flowers or the hearts and flowers were popping above our heads way before we could.

and we wrote to each other faithfully over the course of my mission, and after we got back we got married.

and through that we went through college, through Byu, through medical school in Arizona. and eventually made it to a Residency training in Ohio.

Throughout that journey I found myself working ridiculously hard to distract myself. Actually, the worst moments of my life were the down times I hated

sitting still. Kinda do. I think it’s just part of my nature. Vacations were the worst, especially if we’re driving somewhere, and you have this open road. Nothing to do other than just drive in the slots that you have.

So what I would constantly do is keep my brain going, play these mind games, build elaborate structures

just constantly distracting myself as best as I could. Could I finally made it to my senior year of Residency event, internal medicine

and at that time I was, you know, the Chief Resident. So I was in charge of the entire Residency. I was rewriting the Residency program because we were combining the Osteopathic world and the allopathic world.

And so I was working to rewrite that I was moonlighting on the side.

working at an urgent care clinic in Salina, Ohio. and I kept myself constantly busy.

and it seemed to it seemed to work. The problem was, is I was graduating, and all this stuff that I had set up for myself. All these walls and barriers and things like that were going to disappear.

and I would have to start over fresh again I would be graduated, I would be starting into a new practice. There would be more downtime. And I’ve no idea how it is going to do that. And so in March of 2014, I was thinking about this in my kitchen at the time. I was just standing there at the sink, and just thinking about what was going to happen next.

How was I going to fight off this gendered dysphoria? And I got an incredible spiritual impression. and it was very

I wouldn’t say loud, but it was very powerful. and the first thing that I felt was, have I ever tried accepting

the fact of who I am that I have gendered dysphoria. This is part of me.

and I in my brain. I thought, Well, no, I never really actually thought about that I was always constantly trying to fight against it.

and to actually accept it as part of who I am would never have really crossed my mind

at that point.

Right afterwards the feeling came to my mind that I needed to go. Tell my wife, Laura right now.

Up until that point I was absolutely deathly afraid of being discovered of, you know finding articles of clothing. That you know I would buy and purge at various times of of my life.

or my parents would somehow divulge some of my history. As I was younger. I was constantly afraid of that. and to have this moment where I’m getting a spiritual impression that now is the time to go. Tell Laura scared me to death. They did. I found Laura. We sat down in the living room, and I said, I have something I need to tell you.

and the thing that really amazed me with Laura is that she listened.

She had a few questions, but the biggest thing is, she listened and still I.

Whenever I get nervous and things like that, I get very shaky. I tremor. I I’m actually a horrible liar as a consequence of that, because II just I just get jittery. I tried cheating on a test when I was younger. And I’m just like shaking. It’s clear and obvious that that that it was what I was trying to do, and as a consequence of that one experience. I decided never to do that again.

But here I am. taking my deepest parts of myself and exposing them to another person I had never done before.

and I’ve I’ve read the stories about people who, you know separate. They get divorced. and I. So that was certainly on my mind as well. Laura later described that she was actually having a really good day that day, and was willing and ready to listen.

and she later said that that night.

She just recalls me hugging her as much as I possibly could. because I did not want to lose her.

I told her at the time that the things that were important to me was my relationship with God. my relationship with her kind of relationship with my family. and that I would do my best to try to work with this as best as I could.

and really try to keep those key things. And as time went on I didn’t transition right away. I took my time. But

the thing that helped me a lot was as soon as we moved to Spokane, Washington, where I started my practice. I got started on hormone therapy.

And so this was what year you said that you shared with Laura around 2014. This was 2,014. We moved to same year. Okay, we graduated in 2,014 and moved to Spokane.

and I got started on hormone therapy. I believe it was about August or September of 2,014. Okay.

And at that time our church handbook was basically of the opinion that you know, as soon as you started transitioning. That was kind of it, you know, and II didn’t feel impressed. The time that I needed to talk to any leaders or anybody else beyond my

my wife and myself, at least at that time.

As time progressed, my circle of people, knowing our circle of people knowing, expanded and expanded. Eventually it was my wife’s sister, her whole parents I still had.

Oughtn’t the courage to tell my parents, because I was deathly afraid of some of the experiences that happened earlier in my life. and I wasn’t sure how they were going to respond. One of the things that

happens in the midst of all this is. Once you start hormones, there’s physical changes they’re hard to hide.

and I can remember working one day in the hospital, and one of the nurses came up to me and very politely, and said, Doctor Koons.

you need to get your hormones checked. Inwardly I’m smiling. I’m laughing because II was like

I do regularly.

But that was one of the funny experiences that I had, and it became apparent to me that changes are obviously happening, that people are recognizing that

There was another time where I was working in an emergency room, and A nurse came up behind me and touched my back. I was wearing a sports bra at the time.

and you could kind of tell she was curious, maybe a little nervous. And in my mind, I’m like, it’s okay. I’m I’m starting to realize more and more about myself.

As the circle expanded, it finally came to the conclusion that you know these changes were happening fast enough that I needed to tell other people. And eventually it came time to tell our church leaders.

At this point the church handbook had already changed that as long as you were taking hormones without the intention of transitioning, you were fine, and you can continue going forward as as previously.

So I talked to my State President. I talked to my Bishop and they everything was fine. In the midst of this, of course, was Covid. so 2020 s.

And I had the hardest time. With that I constantly felt like I was between a rock and a heart place that I was. I couldn’t be fully male

because of what I was going through. Internally I could be fully female. And so in my mind, I was building this list of the do’s and don’ts and do’s and don’ts of the things that I could do and can’t do. It was a constant, just battle of Where where do I fit.

and it honestly felt like rock rock and my emotional My mental health suffered tremendously

to the point where. couple years ago, I almost took my life Over the course of the past couple of decades.

I’ve had 8 hip surgeries. and I had plenty of pain medications to go around. and one morning I walked into our closet, lay on the ground, and I knew exactly where the pain medications were, and I thought to myself, That’s all I had to do

just reach over. Grab those meds, and that would be taken care of that I would have my escape. That rock, that hard place. My opening was there.

and as I was sitting there thinking, I actually had to work that day. there was people that needed me.

and I knew that if I didn’t show up to work that people would come looking for me. and so with a lot of effort. I got up and I went to work.

and I took care of all the patients. They were doing fine. but as I made my way through the morning and through the day I realized that there was more and more people that cared about me.

every one for my family, my wife to children, to people who surround me.

and as I was leaving for the day. I got out to my car and broke down and cried. I called the the suicide. Helpline

found strength through them. and got home and told my wife of the things that were happening that morning to.

and at that point, we hadn’t fully decided to transition.

It was an experience that really opened my eyes to what I needed. but I was still resistant to the idea

At 1 point, shortly thereafter. My step, brother in law was leaving to go Cross country and ask for a blessing.

and I hadn’t transitioned at that point, so I was able to offer a blessing, and in the midst of that blessing I received a very spiritual impression. very strong, powerful impression.

But Henley’s father saw me, for who I am He sees the efforts I’ve been putting in and that it was okay. It was O’kay to be myself.

and that that experience right there. I remember taking my hands off of my stepbrother’s head. Just stepping away. And just

did that did that really just happen and I explained that to laura and though only the decision was made that I needed to transition. So I went through the process of transitioning

as a consequence of that, according you know, to handbook rules and things like that. Yes, my membership in our church was restricted.

but since that time I have been happier. more open. My relationship with my family and kids has been flourishing greatly. I am more engaged in work, family life. I see so much more.

The day after we decided that I needed a transition, I walked into our living room, and it was just incredibly peaceful. I remember looking around and just asking myself.

Where’s the noise? Where is this constant roar? Where’s this constant static in my head? And it was gone now.

It wasn’t one of those things where it was. Gonna stay away forever. And I knew that I mean, I can’t make you know. Gender dysphoria go away like that. But learning to accept myself was part of this process in my existence.

MEAGAN: So I have a few follow-up questions. If if you’re okay.  Posit just for a minute. you mentioned that you started to take HRT. Hormone replacement therapy in 2014 and then.

you know, over the course of the next few years.

you you hadn’t decided to, as you said, fully transition. Can you help those that are listening? Understand?

Kind of how? Just starting that hormone fits into this concept of transitioning? Because I think some people here you’re taking that someone’s taking hormones, and

I’m not really quite sure where their mind might go to. I think there was a time when I didn’t fully understand what that meant.

but just kind of in an effort, or a desire to help dispel fear, or myths, or myth and misinformation.

You know. What did that do for you? And and how did that fit into

that transitioning experience? Because you weren’t as you said, fully transitioned. And you know, honestly, II interviewed Bree Borrowman recently, and I love how she put it.

We’re always in a state of transition. We’re always in a state of growth and evolving and moving forward, but for what it’s worth. I

pose that question for you.

Kristine Coons- so for me. Right before we moved to Spokane, Washington. My wife was finishing off some Birth Control pills, and there was a couple days left, and

I asked her if I could actually just take those. and I think there was 3 days left, and it was one of those things where I don’t know if it was a placebo effect it certainly could have been, but at the same time, as soon as I started taking those 3 days

it was like night and day difference. It was so incredibly powerful the effect, and then, after stopping it

it. It really was very apparent that I had stopped it.

and I experience that even now, from time to time, people who are on hormone therapy. There’s different ways to take it. There’s there’s pills, there’s patches, there’s intramuscular injections, and I personally do the intramuscular injections.

and it’s once a week. But it varies from person to person. Sometimes it’s every 7 days, every 10 days, every 14 days. It just really depends on the person. But for me. It’s every 7 days, and on that sixth day that the night

I can very much apparently feel it, and everyone else around me sees it as well, so I jokingly call it my PMS.

And as soon as I get to the next morning and take the the hormone, it’s within a few hours. It’s very apparent

that there is an effect that’s going on. that my body is craving. That treatment.

And I’m sure a lot of people experience that as well, where you know whether it’s pills or injections, that there is a difference.

When I’ve worked with other people.

Whether it’s female to male or male to female individuals. It’s very similar experiences where. But as they work unto this hormone therapy.

there is a very real difference internally that there is an effect. That a lot of people can see. And it’s very palpable.

MEAGAN: You know. I believe you. I’m, I’m pretty open on this podcast and I’m not going to

go into too much detail. But I I’m at an age where I take hormone

for myself, and it’s not lost on me that hormone for women in perimenopause or menopause years that it’s it’s socially acceptable. It’s kind of almost expected that

in some way hormone therapy can help them during those years. Kind of ease that

that transition alleviate certain symptoms and whatnot. So I understand what you’re talking about this this

change in how you feel. Sorry. Go ahead.

Kristine Coons- Oh, no, yes, fine even men. We jokingly call it manoplas, but they take testosterone, too.

And it very much caused an effect on their mental health and well being as well. So hormones really do actually have a very mobile effect, not just physically, but mentally as well.

Oh.

MEAGAN: What advice or thoughts would you share for or towards parents who have kids that are are breaking up issues surrounding gender, whether it’s

to do with clothing or appearance, you know a hairstyle or hair color or cut. whether it’s to do with changing their their name, that they are addressed by, or

or even their pronouns, not necessarily in a legal sense. Yet you know, you said that you remember as early as age 7 and 8, just knowing that something

like you said that you weren’t a boy.

Kristine Coons- Yeah.

MEAGAN: So what would she share with them?

Kristine Coons- I 1, one of the things that I would love to share is there is fear

in both areas. You know, both people’s experience that the person who’s experiencing it and the parents that are involved in it.

There’s a lot of unknowns, and the things that I appreciated with working with so many different people is that

the experiences that we go through. whether as an individual who is transgender

or experiencing gender, dysphoria, or even the parents. it is different from person to person.

and it is okay to take a breath to breathe. It’s a process. It’s a learning experience. It’s not just a overnight. You’re going to change your heart or mind. And it’s the same thing with a child who’s going through this. They’re learning about themselves as they go as well.

and what the outcome will be. That’s entirely up to the individual our goal as parents is to love them for who they are, and guide them through this journey as we go.

One of the things that I have been

very much participating in right now is genetics. I mentioned earlier that I’m also intersex.

It is one of the things that I decided to do. I really wanted to understand more about myself. So about actually, one year ago.

I submitted for a whole genome sequencing test. And I eventually got the results back and found out that there I have a mutation in what’s called the FGFR. One gene

and this gene is very much involved in. The pituitary gland development and pituitary sits right between your eyes, right behind your nose.

And this is involved in sexual development. Puberty. A lot is involved with us. the technical term is congenital gonatotropic hypogonatism. For the people who can’t smell. It’s called coleman’s syndrome

and this gene helps to get those neurons, those cells to where they’re supposed to be. And if it doesn’t quite make it.

then it affects who you are. And there’s various degrees of effect on the body. As a consequence of this.

for me it affected my hormone levels very much. So so genetically. hormonally.

I am intersex And as I have shared this on social media, I’ve had a lot of people come to me and say, Hey, I’m

curious, I would, I would hope, to find something to help answer this question for myself. and as I’ve dived into this world of genetics, I’ve seen a lot of people and do have genetic mutations that

it’s not just XX or XY, that there’s hundreds of different genes that are involved in making us who we are. and all it takes is just one of those to not function the way they’re supposed to. And our brain development or sexual development can just be mismatched.

And as a consequence of that mismatch, we can get gender dysphoria. People can be transgender. And

what I’ve really appreciated as a consequence of that is expanding out, not even just from a sexual development standpoint, but looking at the world as a whole.

and seeing the massive diversity that we have as human kind. That skin color.

body, shape eye, color, hair, color. All these things are just a variation of just some form of genetics that mostly identical.

And it’s beautiful. There’s this beauty and diversity that is just absolutely incredible to see. And as you, as you work with these children as we work with these adults, as these individuals.

seeing them for the human that they are, that they are going through this life experience, that it is possible that there may be a genetic component to who they are

really can help people understand that. Well, I’m sorry that you’re experiencing this. I love you for who you are. How can I help you through this journey is incredibly powerful? And

finding that support, finding that love, finding that hug for these questions and these doubts about ourselves makes a world of difference.

MEAGAN: you know. Some would. some some pose, the or assert the the statement that God doesn’t make mistakes right? As though

something in in the genes or the way that they developed was some mistake in.

you know. I’ve learned to see this as really a manifestation of

just the beauty. And like you’re talking about the diversity that exists in this great big rock we all share.

there’s there’s so much variety. Science still continues to discover species. That we have yet to to know anything about.

that’s really fascinating the the gene work that you’re you’re talking about. I was actually going to ask you. You know how your profession has been a blessing to you along this journey and that

that definitely addresses it. If there’s anything else you’d love to add feel free.

Kristine Coons- No, I think just having that, you know, education and that experience as a physician really makes a world of difference in terms of my understanding.

I, as I walked through this journey of genetics, I actually I smiled and went back to junior high biology, textbook and high school textbook. And

you know these these textbooks, even modern ones, still talk about just Mendelian genetics when you know just the the peas that he worked with, and while it is a great starting point.

the complexities of genetics becomes vastly expansive as we go through the modern era

that we exploded our understanding in the 19 sixties with Watson Crick and Rosalind Franklin. And

really, these genetics that we’ve discovered that involve our sexual development. For example, the SRY. Gene, or Sox. 9, was not discovered until 1996, 90, 96.

We didn’t complete the Human Genome Project until 2,000. And if if you look at the latest news, the Y chromosome wasn’t even completed until this year.

fascinating, it’s absolutely fascinating, this journey that we’re going through of understanding ourselves as humans. And when we look, this is part of what has helped me understand

ourselves, even against religion. When people point to the Bible and say, Well, God created man and woman are male and female.

they are not wrong in terms of the Biblical reference, but as time has progressed, and our understanding of how we develop and who we are has expanded.

There are scriptural references to even people who were different even back then. and there’s 3 that I use a lot in in the Bible.

There was the baptism of the eunuch. Yeah, and there’s 2 others. That reference eunuchs. One was actually the Savior in Matthew 19

talking about marriage. And the disciples basically say, Well, maybe it’s good that we don’t get married. And the Savior said, well, that’s not what I meant, but there are certain situations where eunuchs can’t get married, and he uses 3 different examples.

He says there are eunuchs that are born so from the mother’s womb. There are those who are made eunuchs of men. and there are those who become eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake.

and if you look at the very first one born that way from their mother’s womb well, that’s an intersex person.

and the thing that I found in there that helped me out the most was finding myself in Scripture. and then I turned to Isaiah, chapter 56.

And this is where it really opened up my understanding that we are seeing we are heard. God loves us.

and that has really made a huge difference to me. And give me a second, let me let me pull that up.

and it says, Neither let the son of the stranger that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people.

And if and in verse 4, it says, For thus saith the Lord, unto the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths. and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant.

even unto them will I give in mine house, and with it in my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters. I will give them an everlasting name.

MEAGAN: Hmm!

Kristine Coons- Right there! There is this incredible promise that there is more than just what we see

that we are heard. We are seen. He knows us very specifically.

What I found very interesting is, there is a name better than of sons and of daughters.

Well, if we look at binary, male and female, there is a different name that’s also given in the midst of all this.

MEAGAN: Wow. thank you for sharing that.

those are really helpful passages really gives you a lot to think about. Yeah, it. It’s almost like we would never consider

you know we learn a certain type or or level of math in kindergarten first grade, second grade right? We would never arrive to to college, to university level and

say, Well, I already learned that. Why are we adding this new? You know more complicated math, you know, whatever

right we would. We just continue to embrace and build upon what you know, the the small amount that we know and and continue to grow and deepen, and

that’s talking about mathematics. But that can be applied to any

subject matter in the human existence. I am personally of the opinion, and I don’t.

I’m just speaking of myself. II think so much of the stigma around us is just because for a very, very long time we just

societally, familiarly, the in spiritual or faith communities. We just don’t talk about sex

and and gender. It’s there’s. I mean, this next generation does.  But I see it.

Yeah. But when you’re talking about the generations at the mid twentieth century or before then and since then, I mean.

yeah, that’s definitely in a different place now than it was then.

Kristine Coons- Often what happened in those eras is people either whether they were transgender or inter sex, they were often hidden away. We had this culture and mind set that we needed to present to the world this perfect image.

And we saw that with, you know, the forties and fifties where you know, families. You were the suburban home. You came home, your wife cooked in the kitchen. It was perfect. Everything was just, you know, Hunky Dory, but in all honesty.

There were so many families that had these personal experiences that were hard, whether it be illness, whether it be family experiences, whether it be finances that we never really talked about it, because our culture said that we needed to present something perfect.

And as we’ve gone forward in time into our modern understanding. It’s Ok to talk about things that are hard, that it doesn’t have to be perfect because we’re not perfect.

MEAGAN: What advice would you give to to parents or caregivers extended family members regarding when

when they have a loved one, whether it’s a child or maybe a niece, nephew are nibbling ahem! Is sharing with them, you know. Hey? This is what I’m feeling inside. I feel different, you know. I feel like I’m really this on the inside.

What advice. Would you share with those those caregivers, those parents. about

allowing those those questions you know, allowing those doubts?  that we tend, you know, over to in the past we have kind of run from.

Kristine Coons- I will I have. When I when I finally open up to my parents, II was definitely afraid and scared of what the response would be. I decided that the best way I was going to do this was by email

and I was amazed at the response that I got. My parents are very supportive, and they love me for who I am. I got a phone call from my dad.

and the first thing that he said was, We love you. we love you. That’s the first and foremost thing that

you can share with anybody is that no matter who you are, no matter what’s going on. We love and care for you. Yeah.

the best second advice is, I don’t know everything about how this works.

I’m willing to help and guide through this journey together that I’m willing to listen. I’m willing to pay attention and learn how to do this as we go.

MEAGAN: Yeah. and love that. That’s so. That’s great. You, I truly believe you cannot go wrong when you lead with love.

I. This next question I have for you is a little sticky but I think that it needs to be talked about.

You mentioned when you in back in 2,014, when you just you finally decided to. You know you felt that prompting. Have you ever considered accepting that this is a part of you? Right?

And then you start at HRT. You you mention the church handbook, that you knew what it said.

and that once you start transitioning. that was it. That was actually what you said. Those were your words. That was it.

can you share? Because this is II interview folks from all different faith backgrounds. So for the benefit of all.

can you share what that? What you mean by what that policy was? And then on a more personal level.

how does this affect you like? What is this like to have this policy that applies to you as a human being?

Kristine Coons- So one of the things I’ll start out with is that people who have gender dysphoria who are transgender. They are very aware of Scripture.

They’re very aware of policies in hand books and laws. We tend to be very hyper, vigilant on a lot of these things, even more so than the common person.

I can’t tell you how often I have overheard people’s vote. Deuteronomy 22 5. And take it completely out of context of what it actually says

and there’s other scriptures that They use. But with our church, the LDS. Church. There is a general handbook that exists.

and there are certain parts of that handbook that talk about certain individuals in life they talk about. You know those who have committed murder, those who have, you know, sexual abuse and things like that.

One of the policies that existed at the time was about those who are transgender and those who have transitioned. And at the time it was felt that doing this was a sin.

and that it was a significant enough sin that you were to be excommunicated and removed from the Church

during that period of time before the policy changed. I believe that was in about 2,015 or 16. I don’t remember the exact year

I felt at that time that I didn’t need to talk to my church leaders.

That that was not something that was important enough to bring to them at the present moment.

and at the time of the policy change. I think it was in 2,016. I initially misread it.

and I started out crying. But as I reviewed the policy change. I realized that I was doing just that, and I was not transitioning. But I was on hormone therapy, which was permitted.

And so I did find that that allowed me to have a little bit more strength to take the next step and talk to my Bishop and State President that that felt like it was a window into helping other people understand more about what was going on.

I still am grateful to my Bishop and State President, the leaders who were willing to listen. They didn’t fully understand everything that was going on, either, and later on I kind of surprised them a little bit with a full on transition.

My family was knew a lot more, but a lot more time than they did in terms of processing all this.

but in terms of what this means to me now? and the things that I focus on and my relationship with our church.

So my faith experience is such that I believe in Jesus Christ bad. My focus is on him. and that I can find him in a lot of different places.

I look at the Church as a vehicle. as a way to get to Jesus Christ, and in of itself it has its

imperfections, if you will. There are some things that are not perfect. They try.

And II personally believe that this is one of the things that can be worked on. I believe that they’re trying to work on it. This is something that

is going to take time and effort in understanding and taking these next steps of understanding more about humankind and our relationship with God.

but that it’s something that I am willing to work with and try to teach and educate as I go.  and I teach medical students. I, you know, do these podcasts?

I’ve I’m part of the transgender work group in my medical system which covers 7 states and watching this information be disseminated. That.

you know, yesterday was transgender day of remembrance, and we had a presentation through my medical system.

That’s a was remembering those that we lost over the past year, either to suicide or homicide, or things like that. And it was. it was spiritually heavy.

Yeah, to see a lot of these things happen at. You know, these people taking their lives or others taking their lives from them

just because of a difference. because that something internally is different than what we expect. Okay. it was very powerful.

MEAGAN: Thank you for for humoring me and sharing that. And

what a blessing it is that you have leaders who are willing to listen willing to love, be open minded, and

not not all who identify as transgender are are blessed in that th there, there’s different challenges. Just depending on where you live

and my understanding. When we, before we, I hit the record button, you currently participate in your local congregation

Kristine Coons- and an attend. And that’s me, too.

MEAGAN: Yeah. not all feel safe enough to do that. But hearing that is the reality, for you gives me hope.

Kristine Coons- I am grateful for the friends that we have in our local congregation. when

when I appreciate the blessing of that for my life, that it is a positive influence that I wish that for everybody else. that they can find faith, they can find community wherever that be.

and a lot of it has to do with being willing to step forward and say, this is who we are. There is more to us than just meets the eye that this isn’t just. This isn’t a sin.

This isn’t a mistake. A lot of those words. The negative words that are used against us as as targets is simply false.

and as we work our way through our human understanding in terms of

probably develop how he exists. That this diversity in human kind is just. It’s a blessing, not a curse. Yeah, absolutely.

MEAGAN: Wow. This has been really helpful, really informative, and really a heartfelt one question I like to ask my my guests. The very end is. it’s an important one. So I

you know my one of my biggest goals is to move past the stigma, the shame, the

the negativity surrounding, asking questions and having doubts on a faith journey. And what is? And that question I pose to you is, what does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt.

Kristine Coons- I, and learning to love who I am.

I’m learning that my relationship with God is. It’s all about that relationship of love

that the things that he expects of me is to learn and to love and to share, to serve.

Those are the things that I can do to help others around me.

and to help people be uplifted and see themselves for who they are. That were a one great big family, and that throwing darts and derogatory terms against each other is not helpful.

But holding our hand, giving a hug. saying, I love you, I care for you. I want you to do your best.

I see you for who you are. Those are the things that make the biggest difference in the world.

MEAGAN: Yes, they do. Thank you so much, Christine.

Kristine Coons- Thank you. I’m still looking forward to sharing this podcast.

MEAGAN: So I always throw out a few for fun questions at the end. Just so our listeners can get to know you a little bit better on a more personal level. I’m just looking for one word, 2 word answers. Tell us your your favorite book.

Kristine Coons- Oh, my favorite book. the hobbit

MEAGAN: hobbit! That’s great. Are you an introvert or an extrovert?

Kristine Coons- Very much an introvert

MEAGAN: and a night owl or a morning lark.

Kristine Coons- Definitely a morning lark. And what’s funny is my wife is a night owl.

MEAGAN: That’s a great balance. Then who was your favorite artist?

Kristine Coons- What type of artist you choose? Oh. favors artist! We have a painting of in our dining room of Christ.

the the woman with the issue of blood reaching out and touching his hem. I believe it’s well. Oh, gosh! I can’t remember how to pronounce his last name. But that painting really speaks to me and

starts the fee. I’ll have to get it to you. But that’s

MEAGAN: amazing. Sounds great. Do you do still,or carbonated water? Or are you a diet soda fan?

Kristine Coons- Well, I’m a huge diet soda fan. It helps me keep away during the hard hours. Yeah, if you ever have late late nights. Yeah.

MEAGAN: And this is my personal favorite. Do you have a celebrity crush?

Huh?

Kristine Coons- I don’t II will say, I love cartoons. Okay, that’s a great love cartoons. That is my escape. Actually, real life, drama, movies and scary movies. Nope, no, no, won’t do that. But cartoons. I grew up on Ducktales and Chippendale Rescue Rangers.

I love a good cartoon. That’s fun.

MEAGAN: That’s awesome. Okay, and then the last one. What is the furthest place you have travelled? 

Kristine Coons- Hawaii

MEAGAN: Hawaii, that’s a good one. So if folks wanted to connect with you or reach out to you or have questions. What would be the easiest way for them?

Kristine Coons- I’m on Facebook. That’s probably the best way to get a hold of me. I’m frequently on there, and I’m I’m open to a lot of questions. As I mentioned, I think, before recording.

I there, there’s been some very interesting questions over the years, but I think I’ve pretty much heard most of them at this point.

MEAGAN: I’m sure you have. Okay. I’ll leave a link to your Facebook profile and our show notes.

Christine, again. Thank you so much for your time, your open heart, your kindest position, and your willingness to share your story, to educate and

give folks a different way of of viewing life life through a little bit through your eyes. So thank you.

Kristine Coons- Thank you.