Episode 88: Transgender Day of Remembrance with Michael Soto

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): Welcome everyone to another episode of beyond the shadow of doubt. I’m your host, Megan Skidmore, and I have Michael Soto with me here to day.

And you are someone I have wanted to interview for quite some time. And I’m so grateful for this opportunity to have you on my podcast so welcome.

Thank you so much again. I’m so happy to be with you, and I’m so sorry my schedule has been crazy. Thank you for putting up with that. No, no, don’t apologize. You are busy for a reason. You do such good things, and and we are going to get to that in a in a little bit. I’m I’m really looking forward to this chat to start us off. I wanna give you the floor to share with our listeners about you so they can get to know a little bit more who you are, where you’re from. your origin story, all those things, and just take it away.

Michael Soto: Okay. So my name is Michael Soto. I am from Arizona. And I still live in Arizona. I was born and raised in mesa, which is a very, at least at the time, was a very Lds community, a pretty conservative town. A lot more rural than it is today. And I was raised in a pretty conservative family.

and I was raised in the eighties and nineties. And so that was a really different world than today. We didn’t have the Internet on demand. Just 24 HA day didn’t have cell phones. It’s just a really different time, a lot of ways. And today no social media.

And so, you know, being the words, you know, gay lesbian, bisexual, transgender, queer or really said, except perhaps little kids calling each other’s names, or, you know, like in a negative context,

And so I remember my first memories of gender. Me telling my family that I was a little boy, and that’s you know. I wanted to grow up to be Superman, and all these little plans, and my family correcting me right. My parents say no, that’s not it. And trying to teach me how to be a girl, I guess, and setting those expectations but it never felt right. It always felt wrong.

there’s something. It’s a time in my life that I call my drag years now, because it felt like a performance. And it never felt right. It was something where I remember standing in the bathroom looking at myself and saying my birth name over and over, trying to make it fit, and it just never fit. It just felt so bad. And there’s nothing wrong with the name. Just wasn’t my name, and so you know, if that was a challenge. But I didn’t have language for it. I didn’t know how to tell my parents who I am and give them good information because we just didn’t have it and so I did the best I could. I was definitely a tomboy I played a lot of sports.

I hated wearing anything that was even remotely girlish. So Sundays lots of fights about dresses, church lots of fights about school wardrobe, you know. Just it just never works in fact, when I so to get my senior pictures, which was a thing when I was getting out of it. Still, is

My mom really wanted senior pictures. I did not want senior pictures, because I didn’t like, you know the way it looked and melt, and all of that

And my mom had insisted that I had that I had long hair like, or pretty much my whole childhood. I had once convinced my dad to cut it while I was at his house over the summer, and just very bad about that in third grade. So it was the best for me, cause I just looked like a little boy, and so I had the best summer like the best early fall in school.

But to get the senior pictures I made a deal when I was like, I will get them, but only if you let me cut my hair? However, I want to and so, my senior year, I had really short hair, like

not longer than it is now, but not not terribly. And that was, you know, hard for my parents. I think they both were always trying to find ways to

make me feel and make themselves feel like it could still be a feminine haircut, and that was not what I wanted. And then, high school graduation, I actually shaved my head bald. My best friend shaved it. Yeah, I was so happy. And it was just sort of you know me claiming my gender in any way that I could right, and

finding these ways to sort of assert a masculine gender without having the language for being a trans person and even littler, when I was really little in elementary school. I think it’s a second grade. Had a Teddy bear that I loved.

And this Teddy Bear had a a white, as very little as a tiny kid. I’m still not very big on 5 feet tall. So I was tiny and so green this. Teddy Bear had a white collar shirt that had little teddy bears on it. And it had a tie red tie that went with it, and you know they both had Teddy bears on them, and

I always wanted to wear that. And so I took it off the Teddy bear, and I would put it in my backpack and sneak it to school, and then change. Once I got to school and I would wear my Teddy bear shirt with the tie. Take it off. I was really committed to finding ways to express who I was, even under, you know, circumstances where that’s just not what you did then, you know.

So I went to college. I worked really hard and got scholarship, got a full ride. And I went to college. And that first year I kind of felt like. yeah, I was just really focused on school. I had always been really focused on school because for a poor family, and knew that I would have to get scholarships if I wanted to go to college.

so you know it kind of tucked away. I didn’t date or anything in high school. I was not interested in any of that. I was like, what are the activities and academics. I need to do to get to college.

And my freshman year kind of sustained that, and wasn’t happy, and thought about transferring to Nyu and then instead decided to to leave and go to Europe and live in Italy. And it was a great choice. It was exactly what I needed.

It was just I needed distance, and I needed to see the world beyond mesa and tempi, Arizona and and just experience some things as a young adult right, and and grow up a little bit. And when I came out well, while I was there I was visiting the Vatican and I still didn’t have a lot of language for LGBT people. cause it just wasn’t, you know, still wasn’t really a part of my lexicon but I was at the Vatican at in St. Peters Basilica, and I decided to spend the day praying instead of, you know, doing other stuff. And I was like, okay, I’m gonna sit here and I’m gonna pray.

And I’m gonna pray about how I feel. And I’m gonna ask some scary questions of God, because I just am not happy, you know I feel like the life I’m supposed to lead is not the life that I’m leading, and I need something to change. And and I’ve always felt like a different person inside, right? And again, I still didn’t have all the language. I didn’t know a lot. Still, but I spent the day praying and received just when I ask God you know, what should I do? Just receive the the warmest, most wonderful feelings of like, you know, showed it when I was like, should I be the person that I know I am inside, or keep doing this thing that feels so fake and just it was overwhelming that I should be the person that I always knew I was, and that I’ve always been, and I kind of didn’t look back after that. So I started trying to learn and figure things out. And you know, try and do as much as I could.

I really learned a lot more when I came back to to Arizona, and I met Lgbtq. Students on campus for the first time, met my first Trans person, and I still remember that she was awesome. She was a guest speaker like a Lgbtq meeting, and I just remember I didn’t realize she was a trans. Person. I just thought she was a very tall woman. Everybody’s told me so, you know. It’s not not weird. Not register at all. And I remember holding the door open for everybody else. We were kinda going in, and she stopped and she kinda looked at me and waited for me to like, you know, ignore her and walk in, and I just stood there, and I was like, Go, please go and go in.

and she started tearing up as kind of like, you know. Put her hand on my shoulder as she walked in, and I could tell it meant a lot to her if she wasn’t treated that way a lot. You know, people were mean to her. And yeah, and you know, when she started talking, and she said she was transgender and started describing her experience. I had this like light bulb moment where it’s like, Oh, my gosh! There’s a word for someone like me! What it was amazing. I was just like Oh, my gosh! Oh, my! Gosh! Like my whole body like lit up!

I was so excited, and I talked to her so much afterwards. She’s so patient, so kind, such a lovely human being.

And I finally had language for who I was, and a path that I could start researching and looking into and figuring out, and another trans person. And then I met more Trans people. And you know, just never looked back, you know. And it just was a really really important moment in my life that allowed me to actually be able to say, This is who I am. I’m Michael, and I’m going to transition and be the person that I have always been on the inside, on the outside.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): Wow! That is quite a story. I.

I have heard you speak, and I’ve heard you interviewed on other podcasts.

But I didn’t know this story about you. In Saint Peter’s basilica. You were raised Catholic.

Michael Soto: No, actually, yes, I was just in Italy. And part of what I did was, you know, explored art and churches. Yeah. it’s a beautiful, a beautiful church, beautiful basilica, and you know clearly a very holy place. And so I was just like, you know what I’m gonna spend some time praying here.

I after that experience there. Actually, the gift shop, for the basilica is on the roof of the basilica. Take stairs or an elevator. And II went, and I bought a St. Christopher’s medal. Because, you know, it’s like the patron saint of journeys. I think creative traveling. I was like, Well, I’m traveling right now, but also I feel like there’s a bigger journey ahead of me, and I wore that specific medal for a long time

and till I lost it but I also took Christopher as like my transitioning name while I figured out my full legal name, and it’s still one of my middle names. So

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): wow, that is powerful.

Michael Soto Hi,

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): wow! So many, so many things, so many questions I have for you. Thank you for for sharing and and giving us that kind of nutshell version. There’s no way to encapsulate somebody’s life in 5 min. But you mentioned your family. conservative area, you grew up in and the the faith that you were raised

a primary goal of mine in starting this podcast is to normalize

that we all have questions, and we all have doubts as part of a faith journey, regardless of our faith of origin.

it doesn’t need to be a shameful thing. I found that often doubt, and questions are seen as not okay, not good. Makes you less less than or not as good as and it means none of that unless we believe it right.

so I’d like to ask you a few more questions about you know what role your this identity, this this process that you were going through, that you didn’t have the language for. But yet you knew what you felt inside. What role did that play in your faith journey? And you know, when questions and doubts came up, how did you navigate those?

Michael Soto I think that’s such a great question. And it played such a crucial role in my faith journey.

I think, in part because the Lds church is so so gender specific right in terms of sort of everything from the classes you go to on Sunday roles you play within the church and family and society, and so there’s things never fit for me. And I it was always like a like wearing the itchiest, most awful sweater, or like clothing that you could wear where you’re just constantly irritated and frustrated, and it hurts, and it was uncomfortable.

and it never fit for me. And so I was constantly pushing against it. And because of that I had a really hard time developing any sort of faith or relationship with God. It wasn’t just superficial right. I was like. Oh, this is what I’m supposed to do. But because there was this barrier, there was a barrier between me and God. Right there was a barrier between me and a truly spiritual existence. Because it didn’t fit, and because it was so just wrong for me. Right those expectations of girlhood and future womanhood, and all of those things right and so.

and that was present all the time. Especially in church. And so I had a very, very hard time in church. It was not something I ever felt connected to as a child. I actually insisted I refused to go anymore. Once the II got. You know, there’s at a certain age group kind of when you hit puberty. They segregate the boys and girls in terms of Sunday school and and activities and all sorts of things. It’s very divided. And I mean, my mom was so excited. You know, my dad was so excited. I was like, absolutely not. I’m not going to do this. And I stopped going to church. I I just couldn’t develop a relationship with God through that in that way, and it felt so wrong.

And I’m not. I’m not good at lying. I’m not good at faking things. I’m not good at pretending if something doesn’t feel right for me. I just don’t do it. And so and that’s always been true. And so I just stopped going.  That was really hard for my family. It was really hard for my parents they did not understand. They’re very upset.

And I just focused on sort of secular life, right? As focused on excelling in school excelling and sports excelling. And you know, sort of in, you know, like, student government, right? I was like, Okay, I’m just gonna be the best I can at this thing that feels reasonably okay or okay, enough.

And that I know that I have to excel out to get to freedom. So oh, it didn’t really feel okay. It was, Oh, gosh! The fights my mom and I had about dances.

My mom is adorable. I love my mom. She lives with me now. She’s the best and just, and one of my heroes. She’s amazing. She taught me a lot about being a strong person about being a loving person. But you know she had a really different childhood than I did. She, girl, fit her, you know woman has always fit her mom, fit her like. She loves all of that about her life.

and she wanted me, you know. She was a cheerleader. She was, you know she was. She went to all the dances and had all the boyfriends, and, you know, like just had a lovely time, and she didn’t understand why that didn’t work for me, and why I would get so upset, why it would hurt. And I wasn’t interested in it.  It was really really hard, just because we had such different experiences in terms of that.  But something is really lovely about my mom.

you know. Now, she she doesn’t refer to me as my through my dead name, or the wrong pronouns, or anything like that, and she talks about me even in my childhood, as being a little boy, and she will just be like I, you know, walk into the room and just be like I don’t know how I didn’t like, do the math and figure this out, you know. And I’m like, Well, mom, we didn’t know, like we didn’t have the resources we have today.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her):  Tell me, Michael, what does that mean to you to have your mom do that now?

Michael Soto: So much, so much. My mom is just the best. She’s my hero. I love her, she is so supportive. She’s so supportive. My work, she says, for me as a human being. She’s so supportive of all my friends and community. So my biggest champion she’s just awesome. And it means the world to me like that, you know, knowing that my mom is cheering me on.

It’s just the best. And my my father before he passed away he was the same and just know, knowing that I could talk to them about my life, that I could have them in my life, that we could share a life together. You know that I meant the world to me, because when I came out at 19 I really lost that for about 10 years, until I was about 29 and started finding my way back slowly and like. They started finding their way back slowly, and we started asking each other questions, and started putting love before judgment and found our way back to each other. but yeah, having my parents support means the world to me.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): You know. I appreciate so much that you’re being very candid. You’ve explained how things were earlier and that they weren’t great. Your parents didn’t understand and they were even disappointed

Michael Soto: yeah. and they’re scared. they didn’t know what it meant. And I think that’s that’s so important to just

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): say it to just speak it and acknowledge that because I I’m sure that there are those listening who maybe are just now finding out how they’re children. I their their identity might be different than what both the parents and the children thought it might be. And this is like learning a new vocabulary, a new.

Michael Soto: Oh, yeah.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): I don’t know.

It’s it’s still very new, even though people who identify in this way have existed for

Michael Soto: many, many years.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): They the the words, the vocabulary has only been around, for I was looking it up

Michael Soto: late twentieth century, I think, according to the Human Rights campaign, I was looking at their website earlier than that, but in different forms. The the first transition surgeries were in the early 19 hundreds. So, but they were nothing like that. I mean, they were. They were pioneers of what they are today. We weren’t advances today, although our surgeries and things are still not very advanced. So there’s a lot to do. Yeah.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): So you said the word barrier. and that keeps ringing in my mind and in my heart.  you said that when you hit that age of when the kids get divided by gender. basically when they go into the youth programs.

That’s kind of where your journey paused. Stopped pivot. III don’t know what word you would use, but there was a barrier, he said. for you, developing, continuing to develop faith, that faith in God, a connection to God, and by extension your spirituality. I I think this is such an important point to to talk about. I don’t know that those who are not in this space, or who haven’t spoken with somebody, one on one understand what that means? Can you help us? Better understand what you mean by barrier? I think I know, but for the benefit of our listeners I would love. If in in your own words, you share

Michael Soto: absolutely.

Yeah, I can definitely do that. And I felt like, there’s a barrier between me and everything right. I felt cut off from from God, from the church, from school, from my family, because I could never truly let people all the way in right like I was actually known as a super shy kid. And I’m someone who’s given speeches in front of like $10,000. 10,000 people. Now, you know, like I’m I’m not a shy person at all, but I was known as a shy person because I didn’t know how to let people see me right. I didn’t know how to invite people into who I was, because there was always this barrier, and

I mean I again I would look in the mirror and not recognize myself like, I don’t think a lot of people understand what that feels like when you’re like. That’s not me that can’t be right, and

I didn’t recognize myself in the way other people saw me. I didn’t recognize myself in the future. Other people saw for me. I remember walking into was at my grandmother’s house with my mom and walking in. I was watching a movie with, like all the guys in the family watching movie and my mom and her sisters, and sort of the girls of the family, and the women were in the kitchen and dining room talking.

and I walked in get water or something like that, and they were like, come and sit with us. Come in, Bond. I was like, no, thank you. I’m good. I’m gonna go back and watch the movie. And, like.

you know, at 1 point they pulled me over, and we’re like you need to come and sit with us, and I was like, why, and they were like, Well, you’re one of us, and I was like, No, and they heard just like, Well, someday that’ll change for you. You’re gonna be a mom and a wife, and wanna be, you know, sort of a woman in the family. And I was like absolutely not. And I was like that is not my future.

No, thank you. And I laugh, and I was really angry and frustrated, and they just kinda laughed, you know. And now I’m like, Yeah, that wasn’t my future, like I told you that I’ve told you that my whole life, but nobody could see it, you know. And so.

in terms of like a relationship with God like, I mean, I couldn’t invite anyone in. So how can I invite God into my life right and like. And I think this goes back to the asking questions thing like, I wasn’t encouraged to ask questions about my gender, and I’m a very curious person and questions is how I understand the world. So I think a good question is far better than knowing something when you can ask a really good question. That’s better than a statement.

  so it wasn’t until I started asking questions of God, of myself, of everyone. you know, asking myself, who am I like? How do I want to? How do I wanna be this person in the world? How am I gonna make that happen? Right like, how am I going to become the person, the the boy, the man that I am.

so that I can be seen by the world? And then how am I gonna navigate the world that way? Right? How am I gonna navigate family and school and church and and spirituality and everything jobs and that just kind of opened the door, you know, like it was that prayer at St. Peters that started an authentic relationship for me with God like that is the first time I felt seen and loved by God as myself. That’s a powerful feeling. That’s a transformative feeling, you know. I’m just.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): I’m I’m so grateful that even though you had this experience early on in your youth, by the time you were in your late teens, and you were travelling, and you were in Saint Peter’s that you still felt moved to reach out to the divine. And you you took action, you you said a prayer in the way that you knew how.

Obviously, this barrier isn’t a physical wall made of bricks or anything

the way I see it. And tell me if you see it differently. It’s it’s a barrier that’s created by by words. Words used to define socially define the human experience in certain ways. And at the time there wasn’t one that described you. And so, because everything was so grouped like you, you mentioned by gender.

Michael Soto: Right?

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): They’re really wasn’t a place a defined space for you to feel comfortable. Yeah. acting, being, speaking, living, existing in a way that felt truly aligned for you.

Michael Soto: Yeah. absolutely. And

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): I think that that means there’s

there’s that’s an invitation for those that aren’t necessarily in that space to create new spaces.  that perhaps don’t currently exist or that we don’t currently understand. They? Well, they already exist. It’s it’s a matter of of acknowledging that, and and learning listening like your parents did, loving and and embracing right?

What? What thoughts or suggestions ideas do you have for families, for parents in moving towards creating that more open loving space?

Michael Soto You know my best advice to parents is always do what you know how to do. Best love your kid, no matter what. Make sure. They know that they feel it, and I see it every day.  and then help them. You know, parents are really, really good at helping their kids understand the world by asking their kids questions, you know, by helping them see a trajectory through their life.

That results in a healthy adulthood, right and a happy life, and all of the things that they dream up. And so I say, do those things that you know how to do as a parent right? When a little kid says to, I’m gonna be an astronaut when I grow up and use it down. Say, that’s great, honey, tell me more about that right. How are you gonna get there. Do you wanna go to Mars like, what school do you wanna go to? Right like there’s just a million things that as a parent you can do to to support that child in their dream, even if it’s not what they ultimately become. Maybe they don’t become an account or an astronaut, but an accountant, right or whatever it is. But you can. You know, when they’re passionate about being astronaut, you can put them in summer camp that has something to space or engineering, or you know, you can do all sorts of things.

And so I’d say, do the same thing for kids if they come out of Strand. It’s like. if we if your kid comes out and says, You know, mom and dad like I, I’m struggling with gender stuff like I think I might be trans. I wanna talk to you about that. Then, just you know. Give them a big hug.

Tell them you love them. You all will always love them, and then say, let’s talk about it. You know. What does that mean to you? You know. What does being trans mean for you what’s important for you, right? Where are you? Feeling uncomfortable in terms of gender, you know. For me my hair was a big one, right. I had was made to have told that I needed to have long hair not allowed to cut it. And it was very upsetting and frustrating for me. Right? So we’re close, you know, like dresses. Not okay. Skirts hated them.

And so, just being able to sit down and figure out what those pain points are for your kiddo, you know, for for a kid that you know in your life as a parent or a kid in your family. Second, go a long way to alleviating some of the immediate pain right and helping kids in a safe way understand their gender in a way that feels supported and loved and where they feel cared about and safe. And that’s what we really want. Right? That’s what we want for kids. We want them to feel supported and safe and loved, and like they can figure out who they want to be as adults, you know, in a safe way, as children.

so that’s really my biggest advice, you know. Don’t assume anything. There’s no one way to be. Trans. There’s also no one path to transitioning or to being a trans person.

And we, you know, as a society transitioning people medically, is new, you know, not not socially we’ve had trans people in the world since as early as 7,000. Bce. That’s our first evidence of trans people. but visible in the way we are today, it is very different, right? We are much more visible as a community. We’ve got language like we’ve talked about. We have transition socially, legally, medically, and those things are relatively new. And so I would say, when you get there, take it one step at a time, you know, just there’s no rush as long as you’re supporting your child. They’re gonna get through this, you know, and they’re gonna feel loved and supported. So one step at a time. and just love that kid and be a great parent like you know how to be

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): so for those that are newer to the space. Can you just briefly share the difference between social, medical and the legal.

Michael Soto: So there’s lots of things involved in transitioning your gender. Right? We every single person that’s born in this country, at least. When we are born we get a birth certificate, and we are literally assigned a gender at birth. Everyone. The doctor looks at that baby as soon as they’re born and says that the girl or not the boy and writes an Mr. Get, we don’t do blood testing for chromosomes right, and we don’t do hormone testing or anything like that. So it’s always based on a visual assessment.

So then we, you know, everyone’s got that throughout their life right? That follows you into school that follows you everywhere, right? That just like your name, right? Just like your social security number, your gender becomes not just something that for a lot of folks

maybe helps you buy a birthday present or a Christmas present, or you know, clothing for that kiddo or haircut that they that they have those sorts of things but also the sports that they play right, the teams that they’re on, you know, the all sorts of things they do and so to change that as a trans person. And I think this is like

probably one of the best ways that parents can support their kids. If they come out as trans is to help them socially. Transition right? And so that can be as easy as changing pronouns that you know feel more comfortable for that, you know. Using a different name right? Using a name that that feels good for them, helping them pick a name that feels good for them. I had invited my parents to help me pick out a new name and to be a part of that process.

but it was too early, and they were too afraid, and it was all too new, and they declined. And that was sad for me. You know I wanna love for my parents to help me find a name that worked for me, and that felt like me. So you know, just being a part of those things with your kiddo going to the department store and saying, Okay, so we know, you know, maybe we know that suits, you know, don’t work for you, you know. Hon, we’re okay. Great. But what does work for you?

Do you want the Philly dresses something a little, you know less frilly, a little little less girly, like, you know. What are these things right? Or dresses don’t work for you. What does, and letting them try? And they just close. Let let your kid try on some different styles, some different clothes. Try on a different haircut. You know, having that conversation with their school with your family, with your church community, and saying, You know you knew this child as this. We are now using this name and these pronouns, we’re gonna ask you to respect that as just a basic show of love. And you know, community for for our kiddo so that that’s really, socially transition. Right? It’s kind of just like all of those things. It’s really the gender expression, right? We all every single day put on clothes and wear hair in a certain way, and do those sorts of things that help us feel like the world can understand us as gendered beings. So it’s changing those things.

Legal transition is very complicated. Oh, my gosh, friends, it’s a long process. I just for anyone that’s wondering. Transitioning in always is a long and complicated process. It’s never something that’s embarked on lightly. It’s something that you know, takes a lot of time, energy, resources, all of that. And so legal transition is changing your name. You know. If if you do change your name right, maybe you don’t have a gender mutual name, or something like that. Our name that you feel comfortable with changing your name? Changing your gender marker. Changing all of your bank accounts right? Changing all changing your social security card, changing your birth certificate, changing literally all of the documents, your school records right, your all of it.

so that those records can actually follow you, and it will make sense instead of it being a totally different name. That is not something folks take lightly or just decide on a whim. No, not at all. It’s a very expensive process. It’s a very long process. There are so many steps to it. You have to go in front of a judge for a lot of it. Right? And you have to say this is who I am, and hope that that judge says nice things instead of saying mean things and and allows you to do that and so it it is a very long process. It takes a long time. It’s exhausting, you know, just I mean literally anything that has your name on it or your gender marker. You have to change, and any work record score, you know contact from our employers. If you’re old enough, or schools, or it’s a lot, the bureaucracy, it’s that part. And then medical transition.

This is different for everybody, because all of our bodies are different. Right? We all have different medical circumstances. We all are different people. And so medical transition can be anything from puberty blockers for young people. And that typically is best.

It seemed. Well, one. We don’t have a lot of research on puberty blockers. So this is transgender healthcare in general needs a lot more research because we haven’t had the same kind of resources dedicated to our holistic and whole health. And so I wanna see medical trials, right? Real research, a transgender medical specialty, right? I have always known. Sorry about that.

I’ve always known more about my healthcare than my doctors, and that’s upsetting right then my doctor should know more about my health care so so puberty blockers which are typically for a shorter time, right? Because those are only meant to be. They were developed for precocious puberty to only delay puberty for one or 2 years, really and then hormone replacement therapy, which we call Hrt. For short. For someone like me. I’m transgender man. I was assigned female at birth, and so I take testosterone still, once a week. I do an inter muscular injection in my thigh. And as a result. I have a beard and a receding hair.

Ryan, as you can see, deeper voice. Different musculature. All that sort of stuff. so that’s for for trans women or trans. Girls. It’s estrogen. Right? It’s a fe. It’s female hormone therapies. And they you can do shots. You can do jails. You can do pills that sort of stuff. So it’s really it’s taking medicine. But lots of us. I have thyroid condition which I also take. I take daily medicine for that. So you know, this is the part of life sometimes.

and then there’s surgical options. So the surgeries, the hormone therapy, and the surgeries. What they do for trans. People like me is they allow us to change our biological sex to the greatest extent possible that medical science allows at this point, right? The medical science has discovered so that our bodies and our sex can align with our gender identity. So that we feel whole in our gender?  yeah.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): thank you very much for just being very specific.

Michael Soto: wow.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): what would your advice be for individuals, parents. families who are on this journey and they are. They can see ahead that this is going to be an area that might be in their path. For whatever reason their kiddo wants to talk about it, explore it. sees it as a possibility. What advice. you know, because there, like you said there isn’t a lot of research about this. And unfortunately, I think there’s also a lot of misinformation.

Michael Soto: Yes, a lot of misunderstandings.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): What would be your advice for them to, you know. Proceed, I guess.

Michael Soto: Yeah. First, I’d say, take a big, deep breath. It’s gonna be okay. You’re gonna get through this. Your kiddo is gonna be great and happy and successful. I know trans. People of every walk of life, of every profession. I know. Trans. People that are parents. Trans. People that are, you know, that are doctors that are married that are doing all sorts of things right there. We we exist in every type of life.

And being Trans doesn’t mean that your child is going to have a bad life or a sad life or scary life. They can be totally fulfilled. Human beings, like so many of us, are right. We’re we’re people and so it’s all about finding the right support and the and good information. And so there needs to be much more medical research. So that’s something I’m really big in advocating for right now, and trying to find more funding and resources and partners in that work. Because I want there to be good research someday. So we can. We can look at it and not be afraid. And have really good medical processes, diagnostics, and procedures that allow trans people to be as healthy as we can possibly be throughout our entire lifetimes.

While we get to that I would say. do research about the source that you’re you’re looking into. Right. Make sure that you are reading and listening to and researching from experts. From people who understand. What transition is, and people who are trying to create the best outcome possible for trans kids and their families. We do live in kind of a an odd time where being trans has become an issue that people on the far right and the far left are are using to sort of create political tension right to create some strife. Last year we had more anti-trans bills than ever, and going through State legislatures, and. you know, call me silly, but I think that every human being, no matter our gender identity? It should be ourselves, our families, and our medical professionals that are making medical decisions. That’s you know. I don’t need. I don’t need the State legislature involved in my thyroid healthcare anymore that I need them involved in my gender identity, health, care. And so I’d say, research. Make sure you’re you’re looking at good resources. People that have your well being in mind. And take it 1 s time. You know, it’s just because your kiddo comes out to you today doesn’t mean that you need to get them on puberty blockers or hormones or have surgery the next day. In fact, that’s just not gonna be the process. It’s not how it works. It’s never how it works. So you want to.

You want to take it one step at a time in partnership and in in that parental role with your kiddo. Because you’re their parent, you’re responsible for their physical, mental, emotional well, being for their lives. And so don’t abdicate that right like, be in that role, love your kid, and guide them and do the things that that make that help you all feel safe and whole.

right, and that you can adjust to as a family to help you see each other and understand each other, and love each other even more than you thought possible. And so you know, for some folks that’ll mean just social transition while a child is under 18 right, while young persons under 18 for other folks it might mean something else.

But. you know, have start having conversations with your doctor right, and find a doctor that knows what they’re talking about. That has experience in this, not to get again, not to put your kid on a medical regimen right away, but so that you understand what could happen, what your options are. So your kid understands that. So you understand it. So if you decide at some point to do that, you can prepare as a family.and if you decide not to, you can prepare as a family right, and so that your child again.

and see a path for themselves from where they are when they come out all the way to when they turn 18, and after right? Because you know, maybe that maybe they will wait to transition, and your family will wait, and the child will wait until they’re over 18.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): But then they’re gonna have a lot of decisions to make right about transitioning. And I would want my kid to have knowledge. And I would want to have that knowledge. So they were ready. I think he do not allow fear to get in the way of educating yourself.

Michael Soto: Education is so important. Sorry? No, that’s fine. You mentioned all of the Trans bills nationwide and and I haven’t mentioned this yet. You are heavily involved.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): Politically. You are in the trenches fighting and for trans rights, raising awareness all of the things I know that you, you’ve worked in a variety of positions of non profits, who also equality, Arizona one community quality and fairness. Can you just share a little bit more about that? I know there’s no way to encapsulize that in in the short time that we have today. But just share a little bit about what you do and why it’s important.

Michael Soto: absolutely. I am a true believer in representative democracy and in citizens civic participation. I think that you know our government is only as good as we help it to be. And so I think that’s really important for all people. And I’m super passionate about that for LGBT people and trans people in particular, and our families. And so I do everything from help to the right legislation, and then find either State legislators or members of Congress to run that bill and to help make it law. To working with everyday people, to go and talk to those legislators and to their members of Congress to talk about why a bill like that, or why a bill, once it’s introduced, would improve their lives would would be beneficial to to them and to everyone. And so I’m a big believer in a lot of the founding principals, or really all the founding principles.

all the basic, you know, sort of founding principles of our nation like fairness for all people. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the individual to choose their life right, and to live a life according to their own dictates and consciousness. And so for me, as a trans person. That’s what that’s about for me, right? It’s me being able to be authentically who I am.

live according to my conscience, and exist in this world in a way that makes me a better person, and I hope helps to make the world a better place, and so I do. A lot of grassroots teaching of grassroots. Advocacy. I do a lot of teaching in general about the civic system, about trans people that LGBT people. I work at all levels of government. And so I’m always here to be a resource for different levels of government that want to make strides in terms of Lgbtq inclusion and fairness and quality.

I work mostly in red States. I really love working in red States. I think it’s it’s a lot of fun in part, because it requires coalition building, right? You can’t just work with one party. You’ve gotta work with lots of different people from lots of different walks of life and build a strong coalition. So I love doing work that brings in the faith community, right? That brings in the Lgbtq community right? That brings in all kinds of different different communities to work on the same thing. I love it when that happens. And so that’s what being American is right. We we don’t have to live like each other, to respect each other, and to support each other’s lives and rights. And I deeply believe in that and love the work that I get to do because of it.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): Yeah, speaking of, you know, combining efforts of a faith community, a civic community, and all the communities I interviewed councilwoman Julie Spilsbury earlier this year highly recommend episodes 35 and 36. But I know that you were a pivotal part of the work that she shared about in my interview with her. and that was an amazing example of co operative work in the city of Mesa, Arizona. Any feel free to add anything about that specific bill and that work that you all worked on together.

Michael Soto: Oh, my gosh! That was one of the highlights of my career, because I’m from Mesa. And so, being a mesa boy and getting to work with the council woman and work with the mayor like just getting to do this work together to make Mesa a place where everybody can have a job right? Can have home. Can be a part of public life that was so meaningful to me and beautiful. And and you know II mean the Mayor’s Republican Council, and Spilsbury is a Republican right? Like it’s this was not a an all Democratic City council, and I love that because we get to sit down and say. what are our values? What do we care about as human beings? And then how do we write a law that makes those values real, right where we respect everyone, where we are advancing the the civil and human rights lg, people and advancing first amendment rights for all people right like, how beautiful is that? I mean, it’s it’s just the best kind of work for me, cause you get to help everybody right. And you get to make those beautiful ideas that our nation’s founded upon real for every single person. And so II just I love working. I loved working in Mason. I still love working in mesa the Councilman is one of the people that I respect the most in life because she didn’t have to do this right. She didn’t have to vote for the Nondiscrimination Bill, and if actually had every reason to not, you know, because she it didn’t affect her, her family and her can. You know she had a lot of pressure from a minority of loud constituents to not support it. but she was brave, and she knew it was the moral, the ethical, and the right thing to do.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): and just like, and just like you followed your heart in Saint Peter’s basilica.

Michael Soto: Julie shares about how she absolutely followed her heart in supporting that bill. Yeah, that’s she’s just amazing.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): There’s so much heart and so much sacredness surrounding this work.

Michael Soto: Yeah.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): ever since 1999 is my understanding. There has been a transgender day of remembrance.

Can you share a little bit about that, and what that means, and why it exists. and what it means to you.

Michael Soto: Absolutely. So we’re actually in a trans awareness week right now, which is always the week leading up to trans. Day of remembrance.

so like you said in 1999, is the very first trans day remembrance, which is always November twentieth of every single year, and this memorial began for a very sad reason. There’s a trans. Woman named Rita Hester who died because she was. Trans. And that’s a horrific thing. That’s a horrible thing for anyone to kill someone just because who they are, you know. That’s a it’s a hateful, horrible thing. It’s a hate crime. It’s a hate act and this wonderful one, and lost her life just because she’s a trans woman and so tomorrowize that some of her friends and community got together in 1999 and said, We’re gonna remember her. We’re gonna we’re gonna do something tonight. We’re gonna do a vigil. We’re gonna say her name. And then we’re gonna start actually trying to track this because they don’t know how many trans people this happens to. Does this happen to lots of trans people, or just a few. And very sadly, what we found is that it happens to a lot of trans people even more than really, we can count most years, because often like in Arizona, where I live the laws in terms of death certificates. If you haven’t had bottom surgery. Even if you’ve legally changed your gender, the the coroner can revert to your birth gender and so sometimes, even on our death we’re not treated with respect and kindness. And so a project began essentially to try to track the

the lives that we lose, to hate to.

I horrible. horrible violence, senseless violence. And it started, you know, we. as a community started tracking it.

They’re checking online. I still remember the first website. It was, it was way back in the day. So it was a really, you know, that kind of website, but didn’t have a lot of functions. But we kept the list every year, and they we track it globally now. So track it in the United States by state we track globally. How many Trans people are murdered for who they are? and it’s a terrifyingly big number, and it’s very scary. you know. I

I say a lot to people when they ask, What do trans people want and say an average life expectancy like, we want to not die because of who we are And so. you know, T. Transgender day remembrance has always been very important to me. I actually organized the first vigil, and that happened in Arizona in 2,000 and so it’s always been a day. That’s, I think, important to remember people who his lives have been cut short for no reason for senseless reasons. and to remind us that we can do better. and we should do better right if we. I want that number to be 0 someday. And so that’s why I do what I do right. That’s why I talk about who I am. I do everything I can to support trans people in every phase of life

and their families so that we can get that number to 0. So that

as people aren’t merged for who we are, and we have that another walk tonight. Right? We’re seeing that with the October seventh, terrorist attacks on

Jewish people of Israel, right with this happens in life. We want to stop. We don’t want people murdered for who they are, and so

that’s an important day. That’s a sad day. If you go to a vigil. Please take care of yourself and have a self care. Plan afterwards, cause it is. It is hard to hear the names of people who have lost their lives in this way. Every year. Go with a friend or go with a family member and someone who loves you and supports you, make sure to hug people, you know, like, take care of yourself.

But it’s an important day.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): Yeah. Sobering reminder to just love.

Michael Soto: Yeah. just

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): love.

Michael Soto: Yeah.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): over everything over by over

fear. love, or hate all of all of those things.

Michael Soto: all of it. And you know, Bell hooks, one of my favorite female scholars to send that love is always an action, and I love that because it is right. When you love someone you show up for them right? You show up in their lives. You tell them you love them, and then you show them. And so it’s a good day to show trans. People that you love them.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): I shall ever, by the level. I am just so amazed and appreciative of all of the wealth of information you have offered today.

thank you so much for your time. I know you are stretched. It took a few times for us to make this interview happen. I so thank you a question I like to kind of wrap up with with all my guess is it’s it’s kind of a. a jumping point from the title of my my podcast what does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt?

Michael Soto: Oh, my gosh, that’s a great question.

You know for me, what that means is so. We have fully committed to being who I am every single day and fully committed to what I feel. I’m called to do the work that I’m called to do in the world, the love that I feel called to get my family, my friends, and community.

It means showing up every day with a commitment to that, and reminding myself how lucky I am to get to be who I am and do that kind of amazing work, and be in relationship with the people that are in my life. I’m very blessed. I live an incredible life, and you know, for me, being a trans person is a blessing from God.

It’s my purpose in this life, and I thank God every single day for making my life possible, just as I am. That’s what it means for me

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): that’s so beautiful.

Thank you so much. Appreciate that.

So just gonna throw out a few final questions. These are just for fun to get to know I’m looking for. One word answers really, just for our listeners to get to know you tell me. Tell us your favorite book.

Michael Soto: Oh, It’s a tie between the fifth sacred thing and once an evil, very different books. But I love them both. Read them each every year.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her):  Did you say once an eagle?

Okay, I’ll have to look this up.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): I’ve already said this, I believe. But are you an introvert or an extrovert?

Michael Soto: I am a hybrid of the 2 I’m in. I’m very good at being an extrovert, especially in my work, life, and public life. But I recharge alone. II like to sit in my office that has lots of books in it, and puddle with my dog to recharge.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): And do you have a favorite artist.

Michael Soto: Oh, wow! Oh, so many! Oh, my gosh. That’s so hard.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): Wow! Michelangelo! Yeah, Michelangelo, that’s a good one.

A night owl, or are you a morning lark.

Michael Soto: I used to be a night out, but I have become a morning lark, because I’m often on a plane at 5 in the morning traveling around the country, you do still, or carbonated water, or do you do diet, soda.

Michael Soto: carbonated water? And do you have a celebrity crush?

Michael Soto: Oh, that’s a great 10, I mean probably Jennifer Lawrence and Brad Pitt. Those would both be a celebrity grush for me.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): and the furthest place that you have travelled

Michael Soto: for this place. I’ve traveled probably Germany. That’s a good one.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): I love Germany. If folks wanted to connect with you or reach out to you. How could they do that?

Michael Soto: So you can. You can reach me at Michael, and that’s MICH a. EL. At equality and fairness.com, and that’s all spelled out. So you can reach me anytime. You can also find me on social media. I’m I’m not super active on social media. But I do try to respond to messages on social media, and I’ll post a lot just cause I’m busy but I do

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): just wonderful, such a pleasure to have this chat with you. Thank you again.

Michael Soto: Thank you, and thank you for being so patient and working with my schedule, and I just love the work you do. Thank you for doing what you do in the world, and thanks for having me.

Meagan Skidmore (she/her): Yep, absolutely.