Episode 221: Strait vs Straight: Expansion is Nonlinear with Michelle Keil

Meagan Skidmore:
Hello, hello everyone, and welcome to today’s episode of Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt podcast. I have—gosh, do I call you a longtime friend? It sometimes feels that way. Several years now anyway. I have Michelle with me. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.

Michelle Keil:
It feels that way, yeah. Thank you for having me.

Meagan:
Michelle is a fellow coach. We both have college-age kids, we’re both life coaches, we both have a similar faith and religious background, and we both have ties to Arizona—you live there currently, and I grew up there in my younger years. I know you have a lot going on in your world right now, and I’m excited for you to share that with our listeners. Take a moment and share a little about your background—your upbringing, faith, family, profession, all of those things.

Michelle:
Yeah, absolutely. Like Meagan said, I’m Michelle Keil. I currently live in Arizona with my husband. We’ve raised all of our kids here—moved here about 32, almost 33 years ago now.

I actually grew up in Missouri, in the Midwest. The Dallas Temple was our temple growing up because it was the closest one to us—which is crazy to think about now. I’m one of 13 children—10 brothers and two sisters—and we were all members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We joke that we grew up on the buckle of the Bible Belt—Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas—so it was a very religious community, but not a lot of members of our faith.

After graduation, I went to college at Ricks College back in the day, got my associate’s degree in biology, then moved to Northern California to live with a friend and her grandfather. That’s where I met my husband, got married, and here we are 35 years later.

After a couple of years in the Bay Area, we joked, “Well, we can either live here or have kids, but we can’t afford both.” So we moved to Arizona. We’ve raised six kids here, two are married, and we have a daughter-in-law, a son-in-law, and one little granddaughter.

All through their growing up, I called myself a stay-at-home mom, but jokingly a stay-at-home mom with six part-time jobs. I taught preschool in my home for close to 20 years to help our family, then retired from that and worked as an office manager for a few years before becoming a life coach.

It had been on my mind for probably about 15 years to become a coach, but when you have littles, it just doesn’t feel possible. Then in 2020—the perfect storm for most people—I finally decided to do it. I haven’t looked back. It’s made such a difference in my life, and I love helping other women see things differently and experience that same difference in their lives.

Meagan:
So you were aware of life coaching back in the early 2000s?

Michelle:
Yeah, around 2006 or so, after my youngest was born. There were a lot of Lifetime TV shows about stay-at-home moms, and one had a life coach on it. Around that time, Martha Beck had been on Oprah, and I thought, “That’s what I want to do.” But I had lots of littles and crazy schedules.

It kept popping up in my mind over the years—whether to go the life coaching route or the counseling route. I still might go back for a degree in psychology or counseling one day. Time will tell—I’m always evolving.

Meagan:
So in 2020, you acted on it. You got certified at The Life Coach School, correct?

Michelle:
I did. I started certification in 2020, finished in 2021, and worked as a contractor for The Life Coach School in 2022 and 2023. I love the transformation that comes from awareness. The education I received there was just the beginning—there are so many layers to this work.

I’ve done Master Coach certification with Molly Claire, an advanced certification in motherhood and family life, and I’m currently doing a nervous system resilience training with Lee Davidson. I also did a doodling coach certification, which I integrate with nervous system regulation—it allows people to access awareness through a different part of the brain.

Meagan:
I want to talk more about that. As you know, Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt came from my own pivot in faith a few years back. I started this podcast because I realized doubt isn’t bad—it’s actually the catalyst for growth. If we didn’t question, we wouldn’t expand. You said you love helping women see things differently. Can you share more about that?

Michelle:
Faith definitely plays a part in my work—not necessarily my exact faith, but faith in general and connection with a higher source. For me, that’s my Heavenly Parents and my Savior, and it’s okay if that’s different for someone else.

Growing up in a conservative religious household, there was a lot of shame, not-enoughness, and fear of not meeting the standard. Things felt very black and white. Over time, through learning and asking questions, I’ve realized the more I learn, the less I know.

And that’s okay. I’ve learned to rely more on trust—on my Heavenly Parents and Savior. I still have a lot of questions, and things that don’t make sense, but there are two scriptures that anchor me. One says, “I have other things to inquire of Him”—reminding me it’s okay to keep asking questions. The other says, “I know in whom I have trusted.” Those two hold space for me.

Meagan:
That’s beautiful. You also said growing up things were black and white. Why do you think it’s hard for people to move away from that mindset?

Michelle:
Because we were taught “This is the way.” There was a lot of fear around deviation. It was very checklist-oriented—do this, move to the next. And when you can’t meet that perfectly, you start to feel unworthy—even to approach God with questions.

But over time I’ve realized that’s not true. God isn’t looking for ways to keep us out. He’s looking for ways to welcome us in.

Meagan:
That’s a huge distinction.

Michelle:
It’s not about exclusion—it’s about invitation. And I’ve learned there isn’t the way; there’s a way. I think of it like the Book of Mormon stories of Nephi and the Brother of Jared—two boats, both made differently, both arrived at the promised land.

So I try to stay open and ask myself, “What do I not know yet?”

Meagan:
That’s such a powerful shift—changing the to a.

Michelle:
Yes. And when scripture says “strait and narrow,” the word “strait” means a passage full of rocks and tight spaces—not straight as in a line. It’s not meant to be easy or uniform.

The plan of salvation is one plan, but it’s made up of billions of individualized plans. My plan will look different than yours because God knows us individually.

Meagan:
Do you feel comfortable sharing that perspective in church or with family?

Michelle:
Usually, yes. Because I’ve done enough growth to be okay if someone misunderstands my journey. Their interpretation doesn’t have to be right for me.

Meagan:
That’s so freeing. Tell us more about that growth.

Michelle:
For most of my life, my faith felt linear—checklist style. Now it feels like nonlinear expansion. It’s not just adding more understanding but also letting go of what doesn’t fit. That’s why I love the phrase on my bracelet: “Let go and find more.”

Meagan:
Can you give an example?

Michelle:
Yes—our fourth son passed away when he was not quite two years old. I went to the temple, and at first, I was listing all the things I’d lost—he’d never be baptized, never marry, never have children. Then I felt a thought come: “He is perfect. He can be in the temple anytime he chooses. He’s serving a mission now. What more do you want?”

I realized I wanted my son back—of course. But that experience helped me see a larger, eternal perspective.

Meagan:
How did you move through that?

Michelle:
I was angry with God for a while—but I told Him. I didn’t use my anger as a reason to turn away. I shared it with Him, and He could take it.

In our church, we’re often told to “just trust the plan.” I do trust it—but I’ve also said from the pulpit, “I trust God, but I’m not always a fan of the plan.”

My motto is “It’s all good in the end. If it’s not good, it’s not the end.” I don’t have to pretend today is good—I just have to keep trusting.

Meagan:
That’s so healthy—to allow the full spectrum of emotions.

Michelle:
Exactly. We used to believe negative emotion meant a lack of faith. But really, it’s just being human.

Meagan:
So how has stepping into the messy spaces brought more life and joy?

Michelle:
I’ve found joy in focusing on progress over perfection. Allowing it to be messy and uncertain. Remembering that my perspective isn’t the only one—and creating space for other perspectives too.

It’s going to be messy either way. So it can be messy with shame or messy with acceptance. I choose the latter.

Meagan:
Yes—surrender instead of resistance.

Michelle:
Exactly. We increase our suffering when we resist.

Meagan:
I relate to all of that. For me, surrendering and claiming spiritual autonomy brought me closer to the divine than ever before.

Michelle:
Yes, and I love that you mention growth as nonlinear. I often draw a spiral for my clients—when you look from the top, it looks like circles, but from the side, it’s an upward spiral. You are progressing; it just doesn’t always look that way.

Meagan:
That’s such a great visual. Speaking of growth—you’re also a co-author of an upcoming book! Tell us about that.

Michelle:
Yes! The book is called She Rises. There are 13 of us—master coaches—each contributing a chapter. My chapter is called “Discover Your True Self Through Doodling: Because Pens and Markers Are Cheaper Than Therapy.”

I’ve always been both analytical and creative, and doodling combines the two. Women, especially, carry layers of expectations—religious, social, cultural. I use the story of the Golden Buddha—covered in stucco—to illustrate that we’re not broken, just buried.

Through doodling, we can express things we can’t always say out loud. It’s a tool for awareness, acceptance, and self-discovery.

Meagan:
That’s powerful. By the time this airs, She Rises will be available on Amazon—we’ll include the link in the show notes.

One last question: What does Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt mean to you?

Michelle:
To me, it means that doubt is allowed to exist. It’s not shameful or wrong. Doubt, joy, growth, and creation can all coexist.

Meagan:
Beautifully said. And now for a few quick fun questions!

Favorite book?

Michelle:
The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis.

Meagan:
Introvert or extrovert?

Michelle:
An extroverted introvert—outgoing in the right crowd, but mostly reserved.

Meagan:
Favorite artist?

Michelle:
Monet, Van Gogh, or Salvador Dalí—too many to choose!

Meagan:
Night owl or morning lark?

Michelle:
A reluctant morning lark. Arizona heat has changed me.

Meagan:
Celebrity crush?

Michelle:
Ryan Gosling.

Meagan:
Favorite drink?

Michelle:
Still water most days—but I love carbonated water with lime.

Meagan:
Furthest place you’ve traveled?

Michelle:
New Zealand—though Samoa and Fiji were close!

Meagan:
How can listeners connect with you?

Michelle:
Instagram or Facebook at Michelle Keil Coaching—Keil is K-E-I-L—or on my website, TheDoodleCoach.com.

Meagan:
Perfect. We’ll link everything in the show notes. Michelle, it’s been so good to chat with you and hear your story—thank you for being here.

Michelle:
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been wonderful.