Episode 213: I don’t believe sexuality will take us to hell w/ Amanda Louder

Meagan Skidmore (00:01)

Alrighty, hey everyone, welcome to today’s episode of Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt. I am so excited to have my friend Amanda Lauder here with me today. I have long since wanted to have you on and so I’m really grateful that we were able to make this work. You are a fellow life coach and you are a mom and a spouse and a lot of things. So thank you for making time, welcome.

 

Amanda Louder (00:30)

Thank you, I’m so happy to be here with you.

 

Meagan Skidmore (00:33)

Me too, I’m happy you’re here. So let’s just, I’m just gonna turn the mic over to you. Take a moment and just share with our listeners a little bit about you, your background, your upbringing, family, faith, religion, your profession, all the things.

 

Amanda Louder (00:50)

Yeah, okay.

 

So I grew up in a pretty traditional family ⁓ as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My parents are still married. They’ve been together for a long time, almost 50 years at this point. ⁓ And ⁓ I was the oldest of five children, three living. ⁓ I had two brothers pass away when I was a child. So that shaped a lot of our family. ⁓

 

Meagan Skidmore (00:59)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (01:19)

but grew up in a really great home, great parents, and ⁓ very strong and ⁓ very family oriented. So I grew up mostly in Utah, but we moved back east when I was in high school, and then moved back to Utah my senior year of high school. And then I attended Brigham Young University, where I met my first husband. And ⁓ he and I were married for 13 years. We spent most of our marriage in Dallas, Texas. ⁓

 

Meagan Skidmore (01:27)

Mm-hmm.

 

Okay.

 

Okay. ⁓

 

Amanda Louder (01:49)

We had three children together.

 

Our marriage was very challenging, very difficult, and ⁓ there was a lot of emotional abuse. And so after 13 years, we divorced and ⁓ I met my husband, Kevin, very quickly after my divorce. ⁓ We met when I’d only been divorced for six weeks and he was also just very recently divorced. And, we quickly fell in love and

 

Meagan Skidmore (01:54)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

wow. ⁓

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (02:22)

knew that we wanted to get married and we got married about nine months later and blended our families and so I had three, he had two, so now we have five kids together. We’re gonna be celebrating our 13 year anniversary next week. ⁓ We are, what I say, blissfully happy still, even after 13 years. So we just have a really great marriage and.

 

Meagan Skidmore (02:38)

Congratulations.

 

you

 

Amanda Louder (02:48)

Our kids are now almost 17 to 25. So our two youngest are going to be seniors this coming year. And then we’ll be empty nesters. So it’s been a great experience. I found life coaching in 2017. I had thought about, especially after my divorce, thought about becoming a therapist. That was kind of something that was on my radar. But when I met Kevin, it just

 

Meagan Skidmore (03:08)

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (03:17)

finishing eight years of school because I didn’t have much school under me at that point. Eight years of school being a full-time parent to five kids just didn’t seem really feasible so I just kind of put it on the back burner. But then I found coaching in 2017 and it seemed it was very life-changing for me as well as seemed like a great fit for what I wanted for my life because I wanted to help people and help them

 

Meagan Skidmore (03:32)

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (03:44)

thrive in their relationships and marriage and ⁓ being a therapist, I didn’t want it to have to deal with all of the mental health issues and stuff. We had enough of that within our own family. And I just wanted to help people have a great life and even better. So I actually first started coaching women who were struggling in their marriage and contemplating divorce. But I quickly realized that many of the women were struggling because of sex and sex in their relationship.

 

Meagan Skidmore (03:56)

You

 

Amanda Louder (04:13)

And I had really struggled with sex in my first marriage. And ⁓ it was not something that was fun or pleasurable. ⁓ It something I just basically did to keep my husband happy every once in a while. But when we were about 12 years in to our marriage, I was like, well, maybe if the sex gets better, our marriage will get better. And so I faced my sexual shame head on.

 

Meagan Skidmore (04:13)

Okay.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (04:40)

and

 

dealt with all the issues and I actually learned to love sex in that relationship but the marriage was still bad. So when I got married to my husband Kevin, ⁓ that has always been a really important part of our relationship. So I changed my niche and started helping women in their sexual relationships and that has created a wonderful and thriving business for me. And now not only do I coach women but I also coach men and couples as well.

 

Meagan Skidmore (04:58)

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (05:10)

And ⁓ I love my job. So, yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (05:12)

Hmm.

 

Wow, thank you. Thank you for that overview. So many questions. I’m like, which way, which direction do we take here? ⁓ So you’ve been married currently with with Kevin, you said about 13 years. So it’s been about the same amount of time that you had been in your first marriage.

 

Amanda Louder (05:17)

Yeah.

 

All right. Yeah.

 

Yeah, well, it’ll be 13 years next week.

 

Yes.

 

Meagan Skidmore (05:44)

So you have close to 26 years under your experience belt, we could say, living in a married relationship.

 

Amanda Louder (05:50)

Yes.

 

Meagan Skidmore (05:57)

So I like to be open. I like to be bold and honest. Yes, obviously, you wouldn’t be able to talk about sex and relationships and all of the, we’ll just say challenges that that can bring to a marriage or life. Your relationship with yourself, obviously, if you had.

 

Amanda Louder (06:01)

Yeah, yeah, me too.

 

You

 

for sure.

 

Meagan Skidmore (06:25)

sexual shame to face head on. Maybe we’ll start there. I’m curious to ⁓ hear from you. ⁓ How did you come to this awareness about your sexual shame? And I would be interested if you could also cross section that with your religious upbringing.

 

you did share how you were raised in a very religious, strong household that way. Was there an overlap? if so, can you share about that and what that was about and how you faced it?

 

Amanda Louder (07:06)

Yeah, so ⁓ I didn’t realize that it was sexual shame. ⁓ So I grew up in a home where we didn’t really talk about sex. ⁓ It’s pretty common. ⁓ Sex was something that we saved for marriage. So there wasn’t a lot of ⁓ education from my parents or outside of my parents around it. I mean, I knew the basics of how babies were made, but that was about it.

 

Meagan Skidmore (07:16)

⁓ I think that’s common. ⁓

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (07:35)

And, ⁓ but I realized that there was a lot of language, ⁓ at church, but also in our home around, you know, saving yourself for marriage, that sex was bad. And then once in marriage, it’s good. I, there was a lot of language, around desires, sexual desires being bad. ⁓

 

Meagan Skidmore (07:35)

Yeah.

 

Amanda Louder (08:04)

So, you know, it was, you know, bridle your passions, as quoted from scriptures and ⁓ all of the things, the bad things that happened. I mean, there was a lot. I’ve watched family members that, you know, got pregnant out of wedlock and how they were talked about and, you know, looked at. And so that I think all of that, ⁓ you know, lessons in young women’s.

 

Meagan Skidmore (08:11)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah. ⁓

 

Amanda Louder (08:32)

about preserving your sexual purity and ⁓ how you dress and how that affects boys and it’s your job to dress appropriately so that they don’t have bad thoughts. And I think all of that contributed. I had a lot of sexual feelings and thoughts as a teenager and I felt terrible about myself because of those. I thought that there was something wrong with me because I had those feelings and would squash them down as much as possible.

 

Meagan Skidmore (08:43)

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (09:02)

⁓ But I liked boys. I always say I was boy crazy out of the womb. I loved boys and I loved kissing boys and going out on dates and stuff. ⁓ So when I met my first husband ⁓ and things progressed quickly, ⁓ I had a lot more experience than he did. ⁓ And marriage just…

 

Meagan Skidmore (09:12)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

You’re talking

 

your first husband. Yeah.

 

Amanda Louder (09:30)

My first husband, yes.

 

like it was just, I mean, in our culture, you know, you find someone, they check the boxes. So you get, you get, you say you’re going to get married and you get married and then you can finally have sex. And so, you know, I just thought that everything would be solved once, once I was actually able to have sex and it was great for like two weeks.

 

Meagan Skidmore (09:40)

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Amanda Louder (09:57)

And then I just didn’t understand why he wanted it all the time. I didn’t want it all the time. The meaning frames had changed, which I didn’t understand that at the time, but it went from like, you know, bad, bad, bad, bad, good to like, your brain just doesn’t turn on when you’ve suppressed it for so many years. And then, so, you know, when I was a teenager, I had all this shame about sexual feelings and desires because it was this forbidden thing.

 

Meagan Skidmore (10:15)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (10:24)

And then I get

 

married and it’s allowed and I no longer had those feelings and then I had shame about that. And so it just compounded into and I didn’t understand like why did I have all these feelings as a teenager but then I get married and it’s allowed and I don’t have them anymore. But I also didn’t understand my body. I didn’t understand how women experienced pleasure. I didn’t understand that most orgasms don’t come from penetration.

 

Like I didn’t understand any of that. And so it wasn’t until like 12, almost 12 years in that I finally was like, I was actually watching Oprah. This was back in the day when she was on network television. Right. And she had two sisters on that were doctors. well, one was the therapist. One was a urologist that specialized in sex. And they talked about sex in a way that I had never.

 

Meagan Skidmore (10:53)

Mm.

 

Good old Oprah. How many life lessons did we learn from Oprah?

 

Amanda Louder (11:19)

for. It was not, ⁓ you know, shaming. It was not ⁓ inappropriate. It was very tactful and classy, but still very informational. And so I was like, ⁓ like I didn’t even know that this was possible to talk about sex in this way. And so I started like reading everything I could from them and

 

They had their own show on Oprah’s Network. So I started watching it and then I started like, you know, buying books and reading. And so it was just a matter of like starting to confront all of the lessons that I had had and the thoughts that I, the beliefs that I had around sex. Like, what do I actually think about sex? Like, what do I think its purpose is? What’s it’s, what is it? Like, is it just for my husband or can it be for me too? ⁓

 

Am I supposed to experience pleasure? Well, I have an entire organ in my body that is only for pleasure. So maybe God actually wants me to have this. Maybe this is a good thing that I’m not a bad woman. I’m ⁓ not a trashy woman because I want and desire to have sex. And so it just started to shift. It still took me a while. But I didn’t have anybody to guide me. ⁓

 

Meagan Skidmore (12:22)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah. How long would you say if you were

 

to guess? Months, years?

 

Amanda Louder (12:47)

Probably at least a year, if not more. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (12:52)

Those beliefs, those thoughts are really deeply ingrained.

 

Amanda Louder (12:56)

Yeah, yeah, and you know, I think while I felt so much better about myself and I felt better about sex in general, you because the marriage was still bad, I didn’t necessarily have a chance to really embrace my sexuality in that. But then when I married Kevin and, ⁓ you know, we talked during our, you know, dating and engagement, like, I mean, he was like, do you like sex? I’m like, yes, yes, I do.

 

Meagan Skidmore (13:14)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Amanda Louder (13:23)

Right? And so we talked about the kind of relationship that we wanted to build together and both of us have been previously married. So it wasn’t like two virgins that we were before we got married the first time. And so we had a lot more knowledge and experience and so it was good from the get-go. And I think I finished healing and really started to figure things out ⁓ even more so, you know, in this loving relationship where it could be like something that just

 

Meagan Skidmore (13:27)

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (13:50)

was passionate and loving and connecting and so good for both of us. So, yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (13:56)

⁓ That’s really beautiful.

 

I am really grateful that there’s someone like you who took the reins of your life, specifically your sex, and I’m going to say intimate life, ⁓ because it’s more than just a physical act and physical sensation. So I don’t want to, know, be little or whatever, demean it in that way.

 

Amanda Louder (14:03)

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Yes, yeah, absolutely.

 

rate.

 

Right.

 

Meagan Skidmore (14:29)

⁓ because so many particularly, I’m going to say of our generation, I think your similar generation is me, Gen X. And before then, that what you’ve described is definitely the case. And to even say some of the things that you have shared would have just been the shock value would have probably, no, seriously, it probably would have ostracized you from,

 

Amanda Louder (14:36)

Yep. I would say so. Yep.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

you

 

Meagan Skidmore (14:59)

your community at that time, and you would have been seen as scandalous and inappropriate. And okay, I can only imagine. Well, okay, so that I think leads into my next question. I’m curious then, you know, having been raised that way with all of that messaging, I was too. ⁓

 

Amanda Louder (15:00)

Yes. Yeah.

 

Absolutely. Still am sometimes.

 

Meagan Skidmore (15:24)

I’m still sorting through, waiting through a lot of what you said. I was like, wow, yep, check, yep, check, as you were listing all those things. How were you able to know what you had been taught and yet claim or take the reins and know that what you were feeling, what you were experiencing, which was different?

 

Amanda Louder (15:53)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (15:53)

then the messaging that you got was

 

Amanda Louder (15:53)

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (15:55)

okay. As a matter of fact, it was more than okay. You even said, you started to entertain the question, maybe God wants me to experience pleasure. And I’m curious to know, what did you come up with? I think I know.

 

Amanda Louder (16:07)

Yeah, well, I mean, it really, it

 

really took some introspection, but also a lot of prayer. And I mean, I believe that we can pray and receive answers from God. And so I prayed and I asked questions and I feel like I got answers from God because he, because I was asking good questions. I was asking questions that I had a sincere desire to

 

do what is right, but also to know what is right, not just in general, but what’s right for me personally. And I think God wants us to know those things. And so they answer.

 

Meagan Skidmore (16:52)

So can you think off the top of your head, you said not just asking questions, but asking good questions. Can you tell us more what you mean by that?

 

Amanda Louder (16:59)

Yeah. Yeah. So

 

I didn’t just ask a question like, is sex good? I said, I believe that sex is good in a marriage and it’s good for me as a woman. Is that right? That’s a different question, right? Because sex is neither good nor bad, but how we use it actually creates goodness.

 

Meagan Skidmore (17:06)

Uh-huh.

 

Hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (17:30)

Destruction sex is powerful

 

and there’s a lot of people who use sex for very evil purposes and I wanted to use it for good For me for my relationship, and I think God says yes That is what it should be used for and so by asking good questions. I got good answers

 

Meagan Skidmore (17:38)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

So what would you share with somebody who finds themself in a similar situation as what you’ve described you were in? Let’s rewind about, you know, sounds like 13, 15 years ago, maybe a little bit more, who is trying to claim what you just described that.

 

Amanda Louder (18:11)

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (18:19)

Sex is good. I am worthy of that good thing, that pleasurable thing. Like I don’t have to let go of these desires or these wants that I have in the name of, you know, fill in the blank, a teaching or someone else’s feelings or for the good of the whole, the family, the…

 

Fill in the blank, you follow what I’m saying?

 

Amanda Louder (18:50)

Yeah,

 

well, I that my parents, leaders, they had great intentions. They weren’t trying to hurt me or anyone else. They were trying to keep me safe, right? And so while they did have good intentions, it was based in fear.

 

Meagan Skidmore (19:00)

Yeah.

 

No, I believe that too. Yeah.

 

Hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (19:18)

When anything is based in fear, it does not give good results. And so how can we create something that is not based in fear to give us better results? What’s the fear there? I mean, I think a big fear is that sexuality is going to lead us to hell. And we don’t want our kids to go to hell. Right? And I just don’t believe that’s Because…

 

Meagan Skidmore (19:44)

Mm-hmm. ⁓

 

Amanda Louder (19:46)

I very much believe in Jesus Christ and his atonement and like we are, we definitely make mistakes, including sexual ones, and that is not a sure path to hell.

 

Meagan Skidmore (19:59)

Tell me your honest thoughts. I love how you are claiming your spiritual journey, your ⁓ spirituality, your faith journey. It’s clear that you are leaning into your own inner wisdom. ⁓

 

Amanda Louder (20:15)

Absolutely.

 

Meagan Skidmore (20:20)

I love that you said, I don’t believe that sexuality is going to get us to hell. I think some of that fear-based teaching came from, you know, we were taught that sexual activity outside of marriage was a sin next to murder. think murder is the only thing that was worse. That’s really heavy. And that leaves a lasting

 

Amanda Louder (20:41)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is.

 

Meagan Skidmore (20:50)

enduring ⁓ impression that’s hard to shake when you realize or if you choose to listen to whatever your heart, your spirit, your soul is telling you. I don’t know if it’s quite like that. I don’t know if that’s quite true. Like, tell me your thoughts about that.

 

Amanda Louder (21:07)

No, I that was,

 

that’s actually a misinterpretation of the scripture. So, and I am not a scriptorian, so don’t even ask me where it is in the scriptures, but the scripture is taught, it’s a father talking to his son about his sexual transgressions. But where we get mixed up is he’s actually talking to his son about leading people away from the church. And that’s what is the sin next to murder.

 

Meagan Skidmore (21:35)

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (21:37)

not the sexual transgressions. So that, it’s a complete misinterpretation. So that was part of that spiritual journey is starting to look like what is the scripture that tells me that sexual sin is next to murder? And is that actually what it means? Is that what actually is being taught here in the scriptures? And again, praying about it, like figuring that out for myself. And I mean,

 

Meagan Skidmore (21:39)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (22:05)

While I think the sin next to murder is well documented, so is this other interpretation. We just didn’t get that.

 

So I think we really have to examine what our beliefs are and where they came from and if they create goodness in our life or not.

 

Meagan Skidmore (22:18)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah, I have learned in more recent years, I’ll say, as my own faith journey has taken a significant pivot. I’m very open about this. You know, when I learned that I had a LGBTQ plus kiddo, and then it was not quite two and a half years later that then he came out as transgender.

 

Amanda Louder (22:42)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (22:51)

It saddens me so, so much that there are many passages that are used to nail people to the wall, to judge, to bring shame, to foster fear, guilt. ⁓ This very same concept happens to the LGBTQ plus community. Passages are completely misused. It has become important to me to

 

Amanda Louder (23:11)

Absolutely.

 

Meagan Skidmore (23:21)

I honor Holy Writ. It was written thousands upon thousands of years ago. Words and understandings that we have now did not exist at that time. there’s not even a point of reference that is comparable in many cases. ⁓ And so it takes some significant self-differentiation that you are… ⁓

 

Amanda Louder (23:32)

Great. Yeah.

 

Right.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (23:51)

You are not your faith journey. You are not your thoughts. You are not your feelings. You are the one experiencing all of this. And what do I truly want to do with that? What do I think about what’s going on outside of me? How do I how does that resonate with my soul on the inside? And then moving forward, what does that look like for me in the manifestation and the expression of these?

 

⁓ understandings that you have by listening to your heart, inner voice, capital I, capital V. How did you take the reins on that?

 

Amanda Louder (24:37)

Yeah, I would say I didn’t. I mean, the sexuality part started the journey, I would say. So when I was growing up, again, I have great parents, very good, well-meaning parents, right? They absolutely did, as did theirs.

 

Meagan Skidmore (24:45)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

 

I totally get you. I totally understand. Our parents did the best that they could with what they had, as did their parents. That

 

is the foundation. That’s a baseline. Totally hear you. Totally get it.

 

Amanda Louder (25:04)

Yep.

 

I mean, just as context, ⁓ my father is a convert to the church. He converted when he was 17. ⁓ But my maiden name is something that you would recognize from the Doctrine and Covenants. His father went inactive, married a Baptist, didn’t raise their kids in the church. So my dad actually grew up as an anti-Mormon in Salt Lake City. ⁓ So we, you know.

 

Meagan Skidmore (25:08)

Mm-hmm.

 

Okay.

 

Okay.

 

Okay.

 

Amanda Louder (25:31)

That was, so he converted when he was 17. He went on a mission, married my mom. My mom grew up also in an inactive family. So her parents were married in the temple, but they didn’t raise their kids really in the church. My mom had a best friend who she loved and she would go to church with her best friend. And so she grew up really strong, but not in a strong family. So I think my dad, because he was a convert and because he studied,

 

Meagan Skidmore (25:42)

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (26:01)

He’s very intellectual. He studied doctrine and ⁓ he was very strict with doctrine and my mom taught us more in faith. So it was very, I think, fairly balanced between the two of them, but it was very distinct. Like dad was doctrine, mom was faith. That’s how it, I mean, looking back, that’s how I see it. And ⁓ my dad had this saying when we were growing up.

 

Meagan Skidmore (26:05)

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (26:29)

There’s the world’s standards, there’s the church’s standards, and there’s our family’s standards. And it was very high. That bar was very, very high. And it was very much about obedience in my family. And so when I started to move out of an obedience framework into a more sovereign framework, it felt very wrong.

 

Meagan Skidmore (26:37)

Wow.

 

Okay.

 

Amanda Louder (26:59)

at first. because I so I talk a lot about I think guilt is a really powerful emotion. I think it’s a really important one because it tells us when we’re out of alignment with our integrity and our values. But a lot of times we experience what we think is guilt that is not actually guilt. It’s us taking on the emotions of other people.

 

Meagan Skidmore (27:01)

Yeah.

 

Mm-hmm. ⁓

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (27:25)

And so as I started to move more into this differentiated sovereign way of thinking, I experienced a lot of guilt that wasn’t actually mine. It was guilt that I was experiencing from my parents and my church leaders and all the things that I thought I should be feeling, but it still didn’t sit right because it was not what was actually in alignment for me.

 

Meagan Skidmore (27:46)

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (27:54)

And so it was a matter of learning how to do that and just give that back to them. Like, I am, this is what is right for me. And what is right for me may not be right for somebody else, but it’s what’s right for me.

 

Meagan Skidmore (28:00)

Yeah.

 

Yes, so empowering. Let’s just say that together. Give it back to them. I caught what you said that when you started to move into this place of sovereignty, it felt wrong. And I’ve learned that often we associate discomfort.

 

Amanda Louder (28:14)

Give it back. Give it back. Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (28:29)

or the harder feelings. I don’t like to classify feelings as positive or negative anymore. I kind of look at them by their vibration, right? And so the lower vibration feelings are often what comes when we’re trying to step into our sovereignty. And I’ve noticed that those feelings of discomfort, at least in the faith tradition, I’m also of the LDS faith tradition,

 

Amanda Louder (28:45)

Absolutely.

 

Meagan Skidmore (28:58)

Often those are associated with a loss of what’s called a feeling the spirit or having the spirit with you. And that’s problematic when we are classifying our feelings and our experiences in such a binary way. There’s so many more layers there. And so by looking at it as, okay, I’m feeling unease or I’m feeling a little uncertain or I’m feeling X, Y, Z.

 

Amanda Louder (29:03)

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

 

Meagan Skidmore (29:28)

I choose to see those as teaching moments. Like, okay, why might I be feeling that? Has anything really gone wrong or am I just, you know, what’s going on? And usually it’s just, I’m stepping into my next best version and yeah, it’s gonna be uncomfortable.

 

Amanda Louder (29:46)

Yeah, yeah, it absolutely is. And it’s so worth it. I mean, I would say, you know, so I mean, the shift started towards the end of my first marriage, right? And it has continued on huge shifts since I went into like, I started coaching with my own coach and then became a coach. But at the same time, I have never felt the spirit stronger than I have the last few years.

 

Meagan Skidmore (29:56)

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (30:14)

I have never had more personal revelation. I have never had so many outpourings of the spirit for me and for my clients. Like I feel like I’m often just a conduit for that. So that because ⁓ it’s so, so powerful and I have watched not only myself, but also my children, my spouse.

 

Meagan Skidmore (30:14)

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Mm hmm. Amen. Mm hmm. Yeah.

 

Amanda Louder (30:41)

my clients step into this more sovereign place. mean, the language that I use with my kids is completely different than the language that I used when they were younger or that I experienced because, you know, we’ll have these discussions and I’ll be like, this is what I think, but I want to know what you think because what you think might be different and it’s probably, it might be right for you, even if it’s not right for me. And what’s right for me is not necessarily right for you.

 

Meagan Skidmore (30:49)

Yeah, definitely.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (31:09)

and giving them their sovereign power that they get to decide what’s best for them and not just like, no, you need to obey. Like that has created such beautiful relationships between us, but also I can see it in themselves and how much stronger they are than I ever was at that age.

 

Meagan Skidmore (31:14)

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Think about all the trust that you’re fostering with them and cultivating that will stick with you in your relationship lifelong. So I love that you said how much joy you’ve experienced the more you have stepped into your sovereignty. I have as well. My spirituality has not just expanded, it feels like it’s exploded as I have truly claimed.

 

Amanda Louder (31:33)

Yeah, yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (31:57)

all of my spiritual sovereignty that was already there. was already mine to be claimed. I just didn’t quite see that and maybe didn’t quite know how, but I do now. So that’s what I want to hear from you now. I have found there’s so much joy to experience and moments of bliss.

 

Amanda Louder (32:07)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (32:21)

As we step into that space of the unknown, it feels a little scary, all that uncertainty. There’s these moments that we just couldn’t even probably fathom prior to that. So share with us where you have found new life, like new birth even, in your spiritual journey, however you refer to it as.

 

Amanda Louder (32:24)

Mm-hmm.

 

Meagan Skidmore (32:46)

you know, even new practices or observances that you maybe have introduced that contribute to that.

 

Amanda Louder (32:53)

Yeah,

 

I mean, my faith continues to shift. I mean, I’m still an active member of the church, but I pick and choose. I’m OK being a cafeteria Mormon. And I mean, it’s important to me to continue with my faith tradition. I feel a lot of peace there sometimes, and sometimes I don’t. But.

 

Meagan Skidmore (33:05)

I love that. ⁓

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (33:21)

But I still find a lot of joy in those experiences and with my family and even in the temple, I still feel a lot of joy. ⁓ But I think one of the biggest things is I’ve found so much more joy in myself. ⁓ I don’t really, I mean, I still have those uncomfortable moments, of course, but I’ve really just embraced this freedom and sovereignty and like I don’t get

 

Meagan Skidmore (33:26)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (33:50)

those twinges of guilt much at all anymore because I recognize them so quickly now and check, do a self check. Like am I in alignment? Yes. No. Okay. Right. And then move on. And so I’ve also, I mean, I’ve realized with developing, I mean, relationships are really important to me. They’re, um, I mean, that’s really what I’m coaching on is relationships, you know, these marriage relationships mostly, but, um, so

 

Meagan Skidmore (33:52)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Mm-hmm. ⁓

 

Mm-hmm.

 

for sure.

 

Amanda Louder (34:17)

My

 

marriage is so important to me and I found so much I find so much joy in spending time with my spouse And with my kids. I mean, I love the relationship I have with my kids. I love it. It’s so so good It’s such it’s such a different relationship ⁓ Than I have and that I had in the past and it brings me so much joy to see To see them and their growth and development and and how much love we have in our family ⁓

 

Meagan Skidmore (34:32)

you

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (34:47)

I think that I found more and more joy the more I understand about relationships and people and how to be more of myself in those relationships. ⁓ I will say I was a people pleaser for many, many years. Yeah, and ⁓ I lived in resentment. I lived in it.

 

Meagan Skidmore (35:07)

think that’s common, especially among women, yeah.

 

Amanda Louder (35:16)

I was always doing things that I didn’t want to do so that people saw me a certain way, so I appear a certain way, so that people would like me to keep the peace in family. And I don’t do that anymore.

 

Meagan Skidmore (35:21)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah, you were living for everybody else but you.

 

Amanda Louder (35:33)

everybody else and now

 

I mean I’m really really good about checking in with myself and saying is this something that I want? this something that I desire? Does this feel good to me? Is this going to create goodness in my life or is it gonna create resentment? Is it gonna like and if it does if it doesn’t create goodness I’m not doing it. I’m not doing it. My life is just full of goodness. It’s full of so much goodness.

 

Meagan Skidmore (35:37)

Mm-hmm.

 

You’re out.

 

Yeah, that speaks bliss to me. And I appreciate you being transparent about how you observe your faith. You used the term cafeteria Mormon. I’ve been open since the policies of August of 2024 targeted toward transgender and non-binary individuals caused so much pain. I personally, I’ve been open about this. I’ve taken a step back. I…

 

Amanda Louder (36:02)

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Yes.

 

Yeah, and I have no

 

judgment towards people who do because it’s so personal.

 

Meagan Skidmore (36:27)

It’s just so

 

it’s just not the message that I believe God. No, I absolutely know God is not sending that message to them. And so that’s where I feel aligned. You talk about doing that self alignment check, and ⁓ that’s also a really important part of owning our spiritual sovereignty. So I appreciate you being open.

 

Amanda Louder (36:31)

Yes. Yes.

 

I agree 100%. Yes.

 

Yeah, so

 

I also have a queer child. ⁓ And yes, no, and she’s very open about it. And so I mean, I’m not going to go into her story and anything like that just because it’s not mine to share. But ⁓ that has been a huge shift in me as well. Like I experience things differently because of her. And it has, I mean, there’s a lot of things.

 

Meagan Skidmore (36:56)

about yours. Okay. I knew you did, but I didn’t know if you were open about it. So I didn’t want to say anything. Okay. Yeah, no need. No need.

 

Yep.

 

Amanda Louder (37:24)

that I don’t agree with. But I think that’s what’s so important about differentiation. Differentiation meaning like I can be close to something or not, right? I can agree or disagree and still be close if I choose to be. And right now, and I’m saying right now because that may change in the future and I’m okay with that, but right now,

 

Meagan Skidmore (37:26)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Fair.

 

Amanda Louder (37:54)

I can disagree and still choose to attend. I don’t know that that will always be the case, but right now it is. That’s what fills in alignment for me and I totally respect and honor the people that it doesn’t fill in alignment for because I think it’s such a personal thing.

 

Meagan Skidmore (38:00)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

And I think what you say right there, that’s the epitome of claiming your spiritual sovereignty, claiming how, what you feel, how you align here, how that looks on the outside, what that manifests as. That’s you claiming your spiritual sovereignty. And.

 

Amanda Louder (38:17)

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

this.

 

Meagan Skidmore (38:30)

little aha moment. I mean, I knew this, but that is essentially all that our queer loved ones want as well. That how they are able to live, how that looks, how that’s expressed, whether it’s words or actions or whatever, aligns with how they feel on the inside. It’s really no different. That’s all that they want is to be seen.

 

Amanda Louder (38:43)

Yes. Yes.

 

Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (38:58)

⁓ So beautiful, what a lovely conversation. Thank you, thank you so much for meeting with me. ⁓ The last question I ask all of my guests, and I love the answers because they’re all so varied, but what does living beyond the shadow of doubt mean to you?

 

Amanda Louder (39:17)

It means that even when I have doubts, even when things maybe don’t look or feel the way that I would have expected or wanted, I can still choose joy.

 

Meagan Skidmore (39:31)

Absolutely you can. To me, ⁓ a shadow being there obviously implies that there’s light, right? That you have to have them both.

 

Amanda Louder (39:44)

Yes. Well, and that’s very much in ⁓ like the Taoist teachings. When we talk about like Tantra and different things, which I do a lot as a sex coach, right? It’s all about, it’s all about, yeah. Right. But it’s all, it’s all about in Tantra. It’s about that we, every single one of us has dark and light. We were created that way. You think about like yin yang, all that kind of stuff, right?

 

Meagan Skidmore (39:50)

Mm-hmm.

 

Okay, we need to talk. Just kidding. Not really.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

The

 

masculine, feminine imagery. ⁓

 

Amanda Louder (40:13)

So we all have that

 

within us. And in order to have light, we have to embrace the dark. We have to.

 

Meagan Skidmore (40:24)

Right, there’d be no point of comparison or no point of contrast.

 

Amanda Louder (40:27)

No,

 

and we know that there is contrast, there is opposites in everything. And that is a wonderful and necessary part of the human experience. And we can’t shine, we can’t embrace that light unless we also embrace that dark.

 

Meagan Skidmore (40:36)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah, absolutely.

 

Yeah, I believe it’s that push and pull energy that naturally exists when you do have opposites. That’s what propels us forward. That’s the only thing that creates change, that fuels progress. awesome. my goodness, I love conversations like this. So, just a few for fun questions that I’m gonna throw out to you so our listeners can get to know you. ⁓ Tell us your favorite book or.

 

Amanda Louder (40:55)

Yes. Yes.

 

Absolutely.

 

Okay? Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (41:18)

If that stresses you out, favorite book. Because some people are like, how do I choose?

 

Amanda Louder (41:19)

you

 

Yeah, I

 

mean, I am a huge reader. I read probably close to 100 books a year. So I have lots and lots of favorite books. But I would say ⁓ one of my favorite books is called Secrets of a Charmed Life. ⁓ It’s a book by an author named Susan Meisner. ⁓ She’s a pastor’s wife, so she writes these really beautiful historical fiction books ⁓ that are super clean, actually. ⁓

 

Meagan Skidmore (41:26)

Okay.

 

Amanda Louder (41:50)

I read a lot of Smutty books too, that’s okay. But I really… But I love historical fiction. I love learning about different times in history. And she usually writes things from a dual perspective. And this book is about two sisters who live through ⁓ World War II and the London Blitz and their experience there. And so when I went to London a few years ago,

 

Meagan Skidmore (41:55)

my gosh, Amanda, I love you.

 

Amanda Louder (42:19)

I got to experience some of the places and then half the book is set in the Cotswolds and I went to the Cotswolds and I was on Facebook Messenger with the author and she was like, okay, go down this road and turn here and this is the cottage that I based it on and stuff. It’s really one of my favorite books. It’s a lovely story ⁓ and it really, it taught me a lot about the culture and what happened during that time and so I love any, I love historical fiction books. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (42:32)

is so cool.

 

That’s

 

fun. I love all those areas you’re talking about. ⁓ Tell us, are you an introvert or an extrovert?

 

Amanda Louder (42:52)

I would probably have always said I’m an extrovert and I think I am, but I find the older I get the more introverted I am.

 

Meagan Skidmore (43:01)

You know, that’s funny, because that’s fairly common. I love that.

 

Amanda Louder (43:03)

Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think part

 

of it is I’m just more at peace with myself.

 

Meagan Skidmore (43:08)

Hmm. Yeah. And the more you cultivate that relationship with self and enjoy being with yourself. Yeah. Okay. Tell us your favorite artist.

 

Amanda Louder (43:13)

Yeah. Yeah.

 

My favorite artist, like painting artists. I love Monet’s watercolors. So I think they’re so beautiful.

 

Meagan Skidmore (43:21)

You choose. Yeah, go for it. Yeah.

 

Yes, me too.

 

Yeah, you’re a Monet girl, I can tell. Are you a night owl or a morning lark? A night owl or a morning lark?

 

Amanda Louder (43:39)

Am I what?

 

⁓ neither. I mean, like I, when I was younger, probably more of a night owl. ⁓ I’m out, but I’m a big sleeper. So I, like now my kids are older and I don’t have to get up with them in the mornings anymore. ⁓ I, I’m usually don’t get out of bed until well after eight. And then, ⁓ I’m usually in bed by like nine, nine 30.

 

Meagan Skidmore (43:47)

I think that’s how I would describe myself the older I get.

 

you

 

I feel you. I feel you sister. Okay, tell us your celebrity crush.

 

if you have one.

 

Amanda Louder (44:24)

I really like David Borean.

 

Meagan Skidmore (44:27)

That’s a good

 

Amanda Louder (44:28)

Yeah, he’s probably my favorite.

 

Meagan Skidmore (44:31)

Awesome. Do you do still or carbonated water, diet soda or some other fun beverage?

 

Amanda Louder (44:38)

So I drink water with some sort of citrus in it. That’s all I ever drink. So I get kidney stones. So I gave up soda in 2018. ⁓ And the citrus helps with my kidney stones. it’s water with citrus.

 

Meagan Skidmore (44:43)

Mm-hmm. That’s scummy. I like that. ⁓ yeah.

 

There you go,

 

very healthy. And then finally, the furthest place that you have traveled.

 

Amanda Louder (45:01)

the furthest place, ⁓ probably Italy. So I was in Italy in April. Yeah.

 

Meagan Skidmore (45:02)

Mm-hmm.

 

⁓ fun. One day, one day.

 

So tell our listeners about any offers that you might have or if they have questions and want to reach out to you, just how they are able to do all of those things.

 

Amanda Louder (45:20)

Yes,

 

so my website is just my name, amandalauder.com, and on there, there’s lots of information about coaching with me as an individual or as a couple. I also have a membership for women, so that’s a pretty low price option for some people, if they like that option. ⁓ I do occasionally have different events. I do retreats for couples and women. ⁓

 

Meagan Skidmore (45:27)

Okay.

 

Okay.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Amanda Louder (45:46)

Right now I’m in the middle of it so it’s not open but you can get on the waiting list for my next one. I’m doing a three week live course for couples so where they can come on Monday nights from 7 to 9 p.m. and they come and I teach and then we coach and that’s awesome.

 

Meagan Skidmore (45:53)

Okay.

 

When you say live, you mean virtually live or in person live? Virtually, okay.

 

Amanda Louder (46:03)

virtually on zoom. Yeah, but

 

it’s like not just recorded or something. It’s like they’re coming live. So yeah, real time. And then I have a podcast called Sex for Saints. There’s almost 400 episodes. So it’s massive.

 

Meagan Skidmore (46:08)

Yeah, yeah, real time.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Congrats. That is

 

quite the accomplishment. I hit 200 earlier this year. It is a lot of work, so good for you.

 

Amanda Louder (46:27)

Yes, I have put out an episode

 

every single Friday since 2018. So it’s been a long time. And then on Instagram, I’m Christian Sex Coach is my handle.

 

Meagan Skidmore (46:31)

Mm-hmm.

 

Okay, great. Well, I will make sure and include all of that in the show notes and on some social media posts as well. Amanda, it has been wonderful. So informative and so fun. Thank you for being here today. Absolutely.

 

Amanda Louder (46:53)

Thank you for having me, Meagan.