Episode 193:The Power & Importance of Community with Sara Cunningham, founder Free Mom Hugs

Welcome everyone to today’s episode of living beyond the shadow of doubt.

Today I have a very special guest. I say that every time, and I really mean it.

I believe you.

But today I have Sarah Cunningham with me. And Sarah has actually been on the podcast

in the past. And I asked her on today for

some very special and specific reasons, and we’ll get to that.

But Sarah is the mom of a gay son is from Oklahoma City, and

quite a few years back, in the beginning of her journey, coming from a conservative faith background, she wrote

a book, and I asked you before we hit record and how it’s

Okay.

I’m sorry.

It’s titled how we sleep at night

How we sleep at night. Short term memory problem.

What’s a long title? Unusual, but

It’s so welcome.

So glad.

Thank you. Thank you. When has it been like a year and a half? Not quite 2? I don’t know.

I don’t think quite two. But isn’t it?

So much has happened in such a short amount of time. But I’ve been following you, and I’m so impressed with everything that you’ve accomplished in such a short amount of time. So when you invited me back, of course I wanted to hear from you as well, because

very busy

Well, thanks for saying so. Yeah, life has been busy, and life moves fast.

And lots of things have changed since you and I had our last chat

So Sarah is the founder of the nonprofit organization Free Mom Hugs.

Can you share just a little bit? What brought that out in you? How did that happen

Yeah, Free Mom Hugs was birthed out of an experience that I had at a Oklahoma City Pride Festival. And it was a journey that took me and my family from the church to the Pride Parade, without losing my faith or my son, and meeting this beautiful, what I consider to be a beautiful, misunderstood spirit-filled community, and from

hearing their stories about how members of the community, not all, but the majority, had been alienated from their families, from their church homes and from any parts of society, and then learning about the laws that affect families like ours.

And so I went to a pride festival, and I made a homemade button, and I pinned it to my sundress, and I offered anyone who made eye contact with me a hug or a high-five, because not everybody’s a hugger. And the first hug went to a beautiful young girl who said it’d been four years since she had a hug from her mother because she’s a lesbian. And that experience—Megan, we started the national nonprofit Free Mom Hugs. And there’s been a couple events along the way that kind of put us on the map, and people wanted to

do what we were doing here in Oklahoma City where they are. And now we have chapters all across the country, Japan, Australia.

and

Wow!

Of moms with hearts just like ours, who just want to show up and be that loving presence.

and so you have continued to take your organization and all of its chapters nationwide and now internationally. I don’t think I realized you had some in Japan and Australia. That’s fantastic.

Yeah.

And you continue to show up

at all the places—the pride parades and beyond.

Yes, yes, and you have

a massive group of volunteers everywhere.

Yeah, I think we’re about at forty-thousand, maybe thirty-seven-thousand registered volunteers. And since November we’ve had an uptick of registrations of people wanting to do something, and not only registering to volunteer across the country, but our merchandise—oddly enough, usually around Pride month our merchandise

sees an uptick in sales that helps support the nonprofit in our chapters across the country. But there’s been an uptick in both, and it’s just showing me that people want to do something. And the beautiful thing about Free Mom Hugs is that it offers a space for people to show up, whether it’s at a Pride festival, Second Chance Prom, a clothing closet, national drive-by

care packages—whatever it is that we can let the community know we’re here.

And

even though we are Free Mom Hugs, we do consider “mom” to be an action verb, and it’s not our intention to replace someone’s parent or guardian. We’re always hopeful that the parent or guardian will come around, but until they do, we want to be that loving presence. So I want to make that clear.

I love your merchandise. It’s

Yeah, it’s

my favorite to wear. I love to wear it when I travel, actually, and I’ve given away Free Mom Hugs when I’ve worn it.

Yeah, that first hug—Megan, we call it “the spark.”

It’s the spark that it’s something not only within the hugger but also ignites something in the huggee.

and I love that you mentioned our

merchandise because the simplicity of it—it’s easy to read. If you can’t use your words, you read it, you see it, you know exactly what it’s about.

and you’re not always in a position where you can hug. But if you’re wearing it at the airport or at the post office—just the other day someone wore it at their vet office when they took their dog in for a spa day, and someone at the vet office just

broke down and needed a hug. And so it can happen anywhere. And that’s what I love about our merchandise—its simplicity. It’s practical but profound.

Yeah, it’s really hard to politicize or demonize a hug. Anybody can celebrate a hug

or a high-five, as you say.

Yeah, I like that.

So, as I mentioned earlier, things have changed a lot since we last spoke. We have a new president—there’s been a lot of changes in the laws of our country. I’m speaking in the United States, and for anyone listening outside the U.S., I’m sure you’ve kept abreast.

One thing I love that you’ve introduced into the Free Mom Hugs outreach is your Free Mom Hugs Conference, and you had the first one in Oklahoma City.

That’s right.

And your second one is coming up.

Yep. We had our first conference in 2024. We’re doing it every other year—there’s a lot to plan, a lot of energy and planning, and we want to get it right. It fulfills the educational aspect of our mission, which is to be visible, to educate, and to have conversations. So this is our educational mission statement.

And the first conference was Oklahoma City, the birthplace of Free Mom Hugs, so it only seemed right. But we are a very red state—

Okay.

—and that’s exactly why we need to be here. So we’ve been planning for a year, and we’re ready to go to Dallas, which is a very conservative state as you know. In the state of Texas, however, Dallas has been deemed by the Human Rights Campaign as one of the most supportive and successful cities for LGBTQ+ people. And people say, “Well, why would you go to Dallas?” But that’s exactly where we need to be—to support those organizations, to support those parents and allies and community members there. So it just makes sense.

I have to admit I was so excited when I saw the announcement of

Good.

of the conference.

And you’re gonna be there. I was excited when I saw, and not only are you gonna be there, but you’ve been very generous in your sponsorship toward the organization. You know it takes funding, and I know you work hard, and you’ve just been driven even more so this year. So

I’m all about supporting inclusive, diverse resources that promote belonging and love, educating oneself, awareness—all of those things are so important.

Okay.

Unfortunately, there’s so much misconception, so much misinformation,

which just breeds misunderstandings, and in some cases breeds fear, and it breeds

Absolutely. Yeah.

worry and concern that are really not merited.

Exactly. I’ve long said, and I know firsthand, the power of fear and ignorance, and I know the power of love and education. I’ve lived on both sides of this fence, so I’m well aware, and it’s so

refreshing to

know the difference—to be able to educate and to empower. I thought Free Mom Hugs would be that bridge to close the gap between

fear and ignorance.

And I found that once we poured into the community and their parents and families, that’s where we saw

a surge of empowerment, a surge of community. And that’s where we focused—on the community and their families—because sometimes the other side, people who aren’t willing to have a conversation or try to understand, is just wasted energy. There’s a saying, if you grew up in church, you know you just have to save your pearls.

There’s fruit in serving the community and their families, and we’ve seen it.

I agree. That’s a beautiful approach. Beautiful concept.

So is it safe to say the Free Mom Hugs Conference coming up in April—you don’t have to be a member of Free Mom Hugs to go? Chances are you might be if you’re going, but it sounds like

allies are welcome. Yeah, I love that you said that—you don’t have to be a member of Free Mom Hugs. Certainly not. All are welcome there, but I have a feeling once you leave, you will be a member of Free Mom Hugs, because you’ll want to be part of something profound and powerful, on the right side of history, part of a community, part of something so

powerful that you’ll be able to take what you get from the conference and be empowered to take it back home to change the conversations at the water cooler—whether it’s giving a Free Mom Hug or just wearing your allyship and being visible and vocal.

That’s the goal of the conference. We suspect most attendees will be parents, guardians, allies, and community members. We have breakout sessions and keynote speakers to educate and empower on every aspect—whether it’s

understanding the community better or

deconstructing and reconstructing your faith—although this is not a faith conference, but we can’t leave out the aspect that got us in this mess. We’ll always have a faith component in our conference, because it’s bad theology that got us here.

So I know there’s a main speaker—and I know who it is, I’m so excited—but there will also be

various breakout workshops and speakers. Yes.

Yes, yes. Our keynote is Jen Hatmaker—if you don’t know her, Google her. She’s on all the socials—an incredible young woman who’s been transparent about going through an evangelical conservative background, losing everything as she became affirming, and the changes in her family. I’ve learned so much from her, and I can’t wait for attendees to meet her, hear her story, and glean from her.

Agreed.

And we have

To meet her

Yes. She’s gonna love you. Then we have Kathy Baldock—you may know her from the film “1946,” based on her research on scripture being used as a sacred weapon. She’s a delight. She says Free Mom Hugs gives the hugs and she kicks them in the butt. She’s done all the work—scientifically, scripturally, biblically—and has an outline that makes it easy to understand for non-theologians. I just love her. And then we have Nico Lang—I just ordered his book.

Nicole Lang—an American teenager, yes. And

I got to meet him briefly at Pride Frisco last year—he was

Oh yes, yes.

displaying.

That was fun. I think that was last year—he came last fall of 2024. So impressed—I love his book, but I’ll let you share.

Yeah, I’m about halfway through, but I can’t wait for attendees to meet Nico. And then we have

You caught me off guard—we’ve had some schedule changes.

Okay, that’s fine. Changes are great.

Okay, here we go.

No, I just printed it out.

Nico Lang—if you don’t know him beyond being an author, he’s also been a correspondent for media outlets ranging from NBC News to Rolling Stone, and

you’ll just love him.

And another breakout session: Andy Wells is coming, and of course our friend Liz will be there too.

So you’re gonna be there

jam-packed with so much support, so much love, so much new insight and new friends.

I always meet new friends at conferences or networking events or anything like this.

Yeah, for some it’s like a reunion. I go to conferences too—Q Christian Fellowship conference, Wild Goose, and things like that. It’s so

refreshing.

You can just focus on

what’s in your heart, what’s at your core, and build that up so you can take it with you.

And I think that is especially important right now,

because of the climate in the air. In many aspects it’s so important to find community,

to meet others who can relate in ways most cannot to what you’re going through, whether it’s you personally or a family member, your child, nephews or nieces or niblings.

Yes.

It’s just—I can’t stress enough how imperative it is to find community.

And you have to believe that community is out there. And I promise you it is.

I think, Megan, it’s the most powerful thing we can give to each other. Our volunteers—I just spoke with a mother of a transgender child the other day who said, “What could I say? I’m a cisgender white woman—what could I possibly say to you?” I don’t feel like I can say “everything’s going to be fine,” let’s just huddle down. I have a hard time saying that even to myself sometimes. I feel like we’ll get through it, yes, but only by

building community and creating safe spaces.

And if I tell our volunteers we must continue to build community and safe spaces, that’s the only way we’re going to get through this. And when you spend time in a safe space, your fears kind of dissipate. I’m not saying they disappear, but you know you’re not alone,

and you’re not going to be alone.

“The old saying—you know, there’s strength in numbers,” I really believe that.

Yes, I do too.

Someone usually has to go first, but it’s fascinating and beautiful and wonderful and messy when you realize

others around you are feeling very similarly. It helps to raise your voices together and connect your hearts.

Yes, I agree. In those old church days I was on the welcoming committee—we served twenty years in a church, and I loved the community there, loved the fellowship of believers, and I love it now too—it’s just in a different way. It’s outside a building. I used to tell first-time visitors, “Someone here needs you, and you need someone here,” and I believe that with my core. Someone at that conference needs you, Megan, and you need someone there.

Well, I am excited that pre-order is available for my upcoming book that I’ve been writing for the past

little over a year.

I stepped into a lot of the unknown, some discomfort, and I have written

my perspective and my story as a parent of a transgender kiddo. It’s called Transparency,

spelled T-R-A-N, S-P-A-R, E-N-T-S-E-E,

how I learned to see through my journey as a parent of a transgender kiddo more than I

—kind of fun, right?

Yeah, I love it. I think it’s a perfect title,

and the timing—it’s got to be now. So I’m so thankful.

And I—how would I have known that? When I started to write it I felt really pulled,

really moved to share

our story mostly so people can see that we’re a lot like them—more alike than we are different.

I’m a mom navigating something that’s new to me—having grown up the way I did and taught the way I was—trying to lean into sometimes hard stuff. But seeing so much beautiful fruit come from it, I would not change this journey for anything.

I would not change or trade who I am because of parenting my kiddo. I wouldn’t.

I love that, and you know your voice is so important. As an ally, I think, “What do you need most? How can we support you?” Because you and your family are at the frontier of this moment. How do you get through the nonstop headlines? How do you help your child?

Yeah.

Some words come to mind to respond to that, Sarah. First and foremost: just be willing to suspend judgment and move in closer,

ask and listen. Don’t ask with the intent to tell

what you think is best or how things really are,

but from a genuine, heartfelt place of wanting to learn, to know and understand.

And truthfully you may never understand, and that is okay,

because to love someone doesn’t require understanding every aspect of their existence or life experience.

The more we can come from curiosity whenever we feel fear about queer people in general, especially transgender and non-binary folks—that’s on us.

We need to get curious about our own feelings, thoughts,

beliefs, issues—whatever that might be.

It’s not the responsibility of transgender, non-binary, gender-fluid, or queer individuals

to make you feel at ease or comfortable in their presence.

I think at the heart of this is humans’ low tolerance

for sitting with really uncomfortable emotions.

A lot of discomfort. To be frank, for someone sitting next to a trans woman, their mind might go to “okay, this person has a penis but identifies as a woman, dresses as a woman, wants to be seen as a woman, called by a traditionally female name and pronouns.”

That’s our own preconceived ideas. It’s language—it’s semantics. It’s been passed down for generations. If we research, we see it’s evolved, and many cultures have long recognized a third gender.

I speak to this in my book.

I’m fascinated—very intrigued—by the two-spirit community, and even with transgender folks—my child is not two-spirit—but I have a huge heart for the transgender community because I’ve met enough members of the community and heard their stories to know they’re beautiful, misunderstood people,

whose lives could be so much better if they had a chance to live

—have their basic needs met. But I wonder, is it okay to ask you, Megan, if the world was listening, what would you want them to know about your child?

No. One of my fears when I learned of my kiddo’s identity was that I would lose—lose my child,

who I’d grown to know and love.

But what I’d want people to know is that it’s through this relationship that I’ve learned

to look upon the heart to really see souls.

It drew my attention to how much we define everything externally;

we look for external cues to make sense of the world and miss so much by missing the heart.

My kiddo is still the same beautiful soul he’s always been.

He’s the same kid who loves to sit down and play piano to reset or recenter.

He’s the same animal lover and one of the meekest, most tenderhearted people you’ll meet.

None of that has changed.

Thank you.

Truthfully, Sarah, I’ve met many transgender and non-binary individuals and their parents,

and they’re some of the most humble, meek, mild souls you’ll ever meet.

I know.

They’re not the perpetrators they’re made out to be in media or from people’s fears—

those uncomfortable emotions people refuse to sit with or get curious about.

Hmm.

I wish that every legislator or anyone with misconceptions could spend a day with a family with a transgender child or adult,

just have a conversation. We wouldn’t be in this mess today.

I’m so sorry—from my heart—I’m so sorry that your family, and as an ally, you’re experiencing this now. It’s devastating.

Well, I appreciate you saying that, and more than that, I appreciate your advocacy

and being so front and center, carrying this big bright torch for others to follow.

For me, when I feel helpless thinking “what can I do?” I volunteer for Free Mom Hugs or other places, have discussions like this, be vulnerable and authentic, share publicly—that helps me find some peace, a more settled feeling knowing I’m doing something. It’s not much, but it’s something, and

it builds—small actions build, and we connect and become this great, beautiful, loving force together.

I really believe that.

I think it’s the most powerful thing, and I think it’s what we’re created to do. We’re accountable.

But tell us now about your book, Transparency.

Like?

I love that title. I really do, and I can’t wait to get it and share it. How are things going? Are you close to having a release or early order available?

Yeah, some.

So it’s getting published through Joan of Arc Publishing.

Questions?

I’ve been working with Cara Britton for a little over a year.

I’m in her author’s mastermind.

Nice.

I’ve been writing that, and she’s been magic—her skill is being a book medium.

Yes, I have been writing that. I actually feel a second one in there and have started that, but that’s for another chat.

I’m going to be working with her and fifteen to sixteen other authors

in a master’s program. Her community is called MOSA—an ancient word for Moses. She’s very spiritual in her practices, and she was raised in the same faith I was, but she’s very spiritually based and aligns with where I’m at. Truthfully, I’ve never said this out loud, but

my association with her mastermind is a big reason I didn’t completely lose faith and belief in God, because it’s been so hard.

When you associate God with certain leaders, certain words they say, things they teach—

it can be so contrary to your lived experience with your child and family.

Yeah.

There comes a point when you just

don’t want part of that kind of god.

No.

It’s very hurtful, traumatic in some cases.

So I share that because it’s been a huge part of my journey.

My book is in editing, working on the cover—I’m really excited. I might get your input on that.

Yeah.

Joining her MOSA program, I’ll take this story to the next level of visibility. What she does with her authors has been picked up by a producer and will air as individual episodes in an upcoming series called Legacy Makers. I’ll record my episode in a couple months—mine won’t air until later this year, but some authors start airing in June 2025.

Wonderful! That’s wonderful.

We all have amazing, soul-stirring, moving, soul-shifting stories. It’s really powerful. Let us

know when that comes up, too—I’d love to share it.

I would love for you.

I’m looking forward to that.

Yeah.

Well, Sarah, I’ll leave all the links and contact info in the show notes.

If someone’s on the fence about joining their local Free Mom Hugs chapter or

whether to come to the conference—it’s a four-day conference but you don’t have to attend all four days. You can get day passes for Friday or Saturday for keynotes.

Everything’s at freemomhugs.org—the schedule, location, rooms are blocked at the hotel so you don’t have to leave unless you want to. We’ve listed affirming restaurants and shopping around Dallas—Oak Lawn is wonderful. Dallas has been my stomping grounds for the past twenty years.

This has been such a moving, unexpected conversation—I love that you like to dig deep just like I do, to get real and raw.

Just so much beautiful tenderness—thank you for sharing this tender part of your life. The world needs to hear it, and we’re accountable to share it.

I love you so much. I wish I could give you a hug. I’m proud of you and inspired by you. I hope you know the difference you’re making. You are a powerful, independent, strong, beautiful mom and woman of faith. The work you’re doing is fruitful, maybe in ways you won’t see in your lifetime—you’re truly paving the way.

Thank you so much, and I mirror all of that back to you. I’m so grateful for you, and I love you deeply. Thank you so much for this.

Together, I can’t wait to give you a hug in a matter of days—we’re gonna see you, so it makes sense.

Hey, I want you to make a poster board or get some foam board and put your book on it.

Definitely will.

Hopefully you’ll have the cover ready by then—I don’t know.

It’s motivating me to get that part finalized. Yeah.

I think it’d be great to introduce it to our attendees, so get on that, mama.

Okay, I love you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. I’ll talk to you soon.