Episode 192: We are the First Person we are Taught not to Trust with Jessica Frew

Well, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, depending on where you are in the world or what time of day you’re listening. Thanks for tuning in to living beyond the shadow of doubt podcast.

I am just ecstatic—and I use that word purposefully—to have Jessica Frew on today. Welcome, Jessica.

Thanks for having me, Megan. It’s so fun to, like, see your face. We’ve seen each other on Instagram, but it’s always nice, even though we’re not in person, to have interaction.

Megan—one more time and I’ll cut this out and I can copy and paste it or something. It’s just “Megan.”

Megan, I am so excited to be here with you.

Thank you.

And it’s just so fun to be here. I mean, we’re not face to face, but, you know, interacting and not just going back and forth on social media or whatever. It’s a game changer. I love being able to connect.

I do, too. I am a connector. So if you’ve been following my podcast—listeners, you know that I have taken a shift in the direction I am going in my spiritual journey, a spiritual awakening, this very personal thing. And I came to this point where I was feeling this heaviness, and I realized I need to talk more about the joy on the other side of leaning into all of that discomfort, all of that uncertainty, all of the unknown, because it can be very scary. And the beauty is, there’s so much on the other side that you just can’t see. But you have to release those fears, release all of that if you’re ever going to get to that place. And so I’m excited, Jessica, to hear your story and for all of the wisdom that you have to offer. Thank you so much for making time out of your schedule. Let’s just jump right in. Can you start out by sharing your history and background with our listeners—where you’re from, your family, your faith of origin, education, what you do, all of those things?

Sounds great. My name is Jessica Frew. I always say I’m a mom, a stepmom, a wife, an ex‑wife, and a bold action taker. I think that kind of sums up a lot of my roles and identities and how I view myself in this life. I was born and raised mostly in Idaho, although I’ve lived a lot of other places, and I’m back in Idaho at this point. I love it here. But I’ve lived in Maryland, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Virginia, Colorado, and even Belize. I was born and raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter‑day Saints—the Mormon Church—though anybody identifies that way. And I’m still a believer, even though most people wouldn’t consider me an active member. I’m in but out—very nuanced on that outer edge of religion. I’ve gone through a lot of shifts in my beliefs over the years, and that’s in part due to my own lived experiences—having moments that call us to understand ourselves better and to question the things we’ve been taught, not in a negative way but in a growth way. “This is a new understanding; this is something to explore.”

I followed the Mormon path: graduate high school, don’t date till I’m 16, check all the boxes. I was very straight‑edge; looking at me, you might not have thought so, since I’ve always kind of stepped out of the norms of what a little Molly Mormon girl looks like—but I was very much of the mindset that if I followed the path and did all the things, I’d have an idyllic life and be somebody people look up to. Still, I view myself as somebody people look up to and feel called to share and be an open book, but not in the way I thought it would be.

I went to college and got my degree in Home Economics—Family and Consumer Science—and loved it. While I was there I met my first husband: we met at a choir concert, and the next day he called and asked me out. We were together every moment we could be. We were married in December—just ten months later—very quick, very typical: he was a returned missionary. Right before our wedding, three or four days before, he told me, “I need to talk to you about something—I’ve always worried about sharing this with my wife—I struggle with pornography.” I thought, “That’s not a big deal to me as long as it’s not child porn,” and he said it never was, so I felt calm and peaceful about it. Six months into our marriage, I found gay porn on our computer—no women in sight. I asked him that night, “Are you gay?” He said no, firmly in denial. I tucked it away, thinking, “He’s gay.” A couple of years later he was in counseling and the counselor told him, “Yes, you struggle, but the real issue is you’re gay, and until you embrace that and love that about yourself, you’ll continue to struggle.” He came out to me then. We talked, I read some church literature on the subject, I bawled reading those books—and mourned: first including the pain of thinking our relationship would never look the same, then mourning our future, possibly divorce if he had an affair, maybe losing everything. But we decided to stay together, though there was a very solid chance he’d have an affair.

Fast forward: we had a daughter five years into our marriage, then a couple years later he did have an affair with a man. We tried to work through it; it was a disaster. We decided to get divorced. We had a moment of “How do we want our lives to look now? We haven’t been shown how to do this. What do we want? What do we want to create?” We figured we’d welcome partners who were loving and supportive, and we stayed friends so our daughter could invite both parents anywhere without worrying about conflict. Our daughter is now 15, so we’ve been divorced 13 years now, and I’ve been remarried 11½ years—another whirlwind. I married an amazing man: I pursued him aggressively; he dated someone else for nine more months, I told him, “Let me know when you break up—then we’re together.” We married eight weeks later. Again, another bold action taker moment.

Through having this person, my first husband, in my life—someone I loved and adored—going through this struggle he couldn’t have been taught to pray away, I realized my heart ached for him and I wanted to peel away his shame and pain. I knew I couldn’t, but I knew loving him would help him love himself. That same understanding of love got us through the affair, the divorce, and let us rebuild a friendship. He dealt with suicidal thoughts after we divorced; I kept my phone on for five years, letting him know if he needed anything, he could call me. He told me I was the one person he felt completely safe with. If there was no other reason for me to be in his life, that alone was enough.

I think those pivotal moments—the porn, the counselor, the temple sealing—were all lessons in love. When we’re connected to ourselves and choosing boldly, we can embrace the peace Christ offers even in our greatest pain. We don’t pile on shame and guilt; we choose love, we choose ourselves, and we trust that clarity. That’s how I moved through cognitive dissonance: I embraced the doubt, allowed the pain, and trusted the messages I felt—from God in the temple, and in my heart—that I could still love and be loved, no matter what.

Tell us what it means to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt.

It means being willing to live with doubt and questions and be at peace with not knowing. I can’t fully understand the universe or God’s plan. Embracing that uncertainty—and knowing I can trust what’s in my heart—gives me confidence. So living beyond the shadow of doubt is living in confidence, with room for doubt and the unknown.

Any final thoughts or ways people can connect with you?

I help women learn to trust themselves and make aligned decisions—our greatest gift is agency. You can find me on Instagram @heyjessicafrew, and I have a free “Should Score” quiz at heyjessicafrew\.com/quiz to see where you’re shooting on yourself. It’s quick and insightful—like a fun magazine quiz for adults.

Quick for fun: favorite book?

Right now, The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks.

Introvert or extrovert?

I thought extrovert, but I’m an extrovert with strong introvert tendencies.

Favorite artist?

I just discovered a new one named Jessica—will share her last name when I remember.

Morning lark or night owl?

Morning lark, though I love my sleep any time.

Favorite non‑alcoholic beverage?

Chai tea and brewed cacao (no caffeine, comforting warmth).

Furthest traveled?

A whirlwind weekend in Europe—Germany, Italy, Spain, France—in just a few days.

It’s been a pleasure, Jessica. Thank you so much for joining me today. Sending you love.

Thank you, Megan!