Episode 163: Too Much-ness with Jenn Koch of Stylegasm

Hey, everybody, welcome to my first episode kicking off this month of JOA Book Club. A lot of people have a book of the month. We’re having an entire month of a book club where I am chatting with so many of my friends and members of our Mosaic Network and JOA publishers.

 

Y’all have such great stories. And Jen, I’m so thrilled that you are kicking this whole thing off. So welcome to the podcast.

 

Thank you. I’m so honored to be here. Yes.

 

I’m so excited for you to share your story with my listeners. So let’s just jump right in. So can you start off by giving us a brief overview of your background, your family, you know, your origin story, where you grew up, maybe your faith of origin, if that was part of your life, education, profession, just all the things that make up Jen.

 

Sure. So I was born and raised in Virginia. I’m from a small town outside of Richmond called Mechanicsville.

 

Took me a long time to own that one. Apparently it’s called Mechanicsville because people used to get their, their, what is it, before cars, like the horse and carriage was when people would stop to get that fixed there. So there’s actually a lot in Virginia, a lot of American history there.

 

We actually had a Civil War hospital, an old building on our property where I grew up. So yeah, born, born and raised, lived in the same house since I was three. My mom was a teacher.

 

And as far as my faith, my mom is actually Jewish and my dad was Catholic. And it’s actually like the generations up, like my, my grandma, my Catholic grandma was very religious and my great grandparents were still alive when I was a kid were Jewish, were very religious. But my parents actually, I think it was the best thing that they ever did is they introduced us to both religions, but they didn’t force, they didn’t force us to choose a religion or that really that there was any one path to find, to find God.

 

So we weren’t, you know, my mother was Jewish. We were not baptized. And even though, you know, Catholic, we, sorry, Jewish, we didn’t have like bar mitzvahs.

 

We didn’t do all that. And then with Catholic, we didn’t do baptism, but yet we went to like Jewish Sunday school and learned Hebrew. And we did the Jewish high holidays and all of that.

 

And then we did all the Catholic, the Catholic things as well. So I do feel really grateful that it was very like, I guess, more, more open mindedness. And I think that that really just contributed to me, just my perspective in the world.

 

And even in college, I had a Muslim boyfriend and I’ve had people from all different religions and have friends with people with different backgrounds. So I would say in general, you might, where I grew up, you know, Virginia is more conservative in some ways and stuff. Yeah.

 

(2:54 – 3:32)

But, but when you, when you hear that, actually, I think my parents were pretty progressive in that sense. But yeah, I was always drawn to, and we’ll talk about this more, I’m sure, but I was drawn, always drawn to fashion. And when I was a little girl, my mom used to sew me dresses.

 

And by the time I was in preschool, and I could talk, I had a strong opinions about what I liked. And, and that was really what began my whole journey in style and expression through clothes. That’s fabulous.

 

What a great, great way to grow up. Your parents didn’t necessarily push religion on you. And nor did they push their specific brand of religion, I guess.

 

(3:33 – 4:40)

Yeah. I’m curious to know, how was that as a child? I mean, I realized that you didn’t know any different. Did you feel a pressure to go with one over the other to engage with one? Or did you feel a pull toward one over the other? Like? Yeah, that’s a good question.

 

Like I, I felt, I was proud that I was introduced, that I had the background in both. I definitely always related more to Judaism. Like for instance, I look, I just look more Jewish.

 

Like I have these like hazel eyes, like just outside the family. You know, my brother and sister had blonde hair and blue eyes, and it was like German background and Irish background, my dad too. So I, so for me, even though I didn’t actually like Hebrew school, I didn’t, you know, like going, but I liked, like in my actual school that I went to, you know, through throughout the year, there weren’t other Jewish kids in our, in our school.

 

Cause we were lived out in the country. We went into the city to go to Hebrew school. So it was kind of interesting, you know, even like during Passover, you know, my mom would make like matzah sandwiches, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

 

(4:41 – 4:52)

And I actually, I actually liked it. I guess I liked, even though I was like a really shy kid, like when I was really young, I had speech impediment and I was just always very shy. But like, I think that’s partly, you know, we’re like dressing and I got to do something different.

 

(4:52 – 10:04)

I, I liked that part about being Jewish and being, being different. We had these like different holidays and I think, you know, it was interesting. I think we actually, as kids probably did more things like as far as like Jews, like, cause we would always did Jewish like Sunday school and then Catholic, we would go to like sometimes like on Wednesday nights and different things.

 

But it was interesting because in the Jewish, like it was, it was actually challenging cause they make you learn Hebrew and there’s all these like stories and it’s very like, the education there is very like, they, they want you to like critically think about things. Like they want, they’re not just like telling you like, this is what you believe. Like they want you to like have a discussion around it.

 

And like, it’s almost like an English literature class of like your interpretation. And I actually found it very challenging cause I didn’t understand it. And so it was really interesting going to that and then going to like a Catholic where they’re just like, well, you just have to believe in this.

 

And if you don’t believe in, you know, you’re going to like die if you don’t believe in this or just everything around sin. So yeah, I guess I just, I had just a more, I liked the more open ended interpretation of, of God. So I would say it was drawn more that side.

 

My, it was interesting cause I’ve had a lot of friends that were like born again, Christians and stuff. And so sometimes I did get like, as I got older, sometimes like they were like, well, you have to like choose a religion and you can’t really believe, or, you know, you, you’re going to go to hell because you know, you don’t believe in Jesus in the same way. So there definitely was some pressure that came as I got older, but it wasn’t for my family per se.

 

Yeah. So let’s jump to that. If you don’t mind, if you can speak to, you know, when did you or did you begin to realize that maybe your, your religious foundation, your beliefs associated with it was maybe evolving or shifting and were there challenges to that, you know, and kind of like what that was like.

 

A lot of times we, we don’t, we resist because of that, whether it’s, it’s pulled to family, if it’s, you know, that tie that like, Oh, I bring up our, you know, longstanding generations faith, that kind of a thing. Yeah. No, this is cool to talk about cause I’ve never really, no one’s really ever asked me this deeply around like my story of my faith.

 

I mean, I would say like, especially when I went to college, like, I felt like I was a bit lost just, you know, with just my identity in general, you know, um, I was going to art school and then I, you know, kind of scaled back from art school, went to business school and just kind of, you know, just trying to find like friends, just trying to figure out where I fit in. I was in this like abusive relationship when I was in my last semester in high school. So I came into college, just like really raw, just really just trying to figure who I was.

 

And like, one of the things I actually, my sis, so my sister, as soon as she went to college, she decided that she wanted to be Catholic and, um, she, so she actually went and converted and had a bit of tabs and did the whole thing and became very involved in the Catholic community there in the church. And it’s still in this day, a very religious person. And so there was, and my sister’s actually only like a year and a half older than me.

 

So I actually would go and like, hang out with her. Like she lived in a college. It was like an hour away, but like, sometimes I would go and hang out with her and hang out with her friends.

 

And then like, she would invite me to some of her Catholic things. So there was kind of this point of like, am I going to go down the same path as my sister? Cause like I liked her friend, you know, like I liked her friends and, but there was some part of it that just didn’t quite, it didn’t quite click, you know? So I think, yeah, I think it just, I think it was part of my exploration. I mean, I did get into, like, I think I took my first yoga class when I was in, when I was in college.

 

I’m 38 now. So at some point in my early twenties. So I think, um, I think I just really naturally took to that, you know, that they’re just like more of like a spiritual practice.

 

Um, and I actually went to, so if you’re, if you have a Jewish grandparent, you’re entitled to go to birthright, which is basically you get to Israel for free for 10 days on this like organized trip. Like they pay for everything. They pay for your plane ticket and you, and you go with like 40 other people, like 20 year olds through your age.

 

Um, and that was cool. It definitely felt like connected to, definitely felt connected to like the land itself. I think I just, I’ve always felt like culturally Jewish.

 

I’m like, oh yeah, like this is my background. I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily my connection to God, but like, I’m like, oh yeah, my ancestors ate this and this is where we came from and what have you. And yeah, I did have different, you know, I think sometimes with religion, it’s like, it becomes like a social group, you know? Like there was a point about, gosh, about like 13 years ago, like I was, there was like a young professionals group for Jewish people.

 

And I just, you know, they allowed, I just became involved in it as like a friend thing. I mean, we didn’t never do religious things, but it just became, you know, just became, it was like a moment in time. I was more in that community, if that makes sense.

 

(10:05 – 14:21)

Yeah, I agree. I think, um, religion does provide that much needed opportunity for community. We’re very tribal of our people.

 

So I’m curious, you know, as, as we get older, we start to sense or however one communes with the divine or the universe, we start to get those messages and the way that we get our messages about the path that is meant for us, you know, and it might take us in a different place than perhaps what our parents wanted, or maybe thought we would do. Or it’s different than maybe what we thought it would look like, or our faith community even might have thought it would look like. But I’ve also found there is so much joy, even if it’s a difficult path, if it’s hard, it’s got, you know, all the, the pebbles and the stones and the boulders on a pathway that, you know, some moments are a little bit harder, challenging than others, but can you speak to, and I’m wondering if the book that you are writing with JOA publishers, as well as you’ve written a little bit already, a chapter, yeah, you know, how much that played that, what role those played, you know, as you began to embrace what path you felt was meant for you.

 

And it just embodied that, you know, just can you share how you have found joy or rebirth and in surrendering to that path? Yeah, I mean, for me, I so I graduated college when I was 23. And I had a job and internship, but I ended up losing from a contract discrepancy. And I ended up, I saved some money through college and stuff, I ended up booking a one way ticket to Spain, and actually backpacking around the world for close to a year, I went to 19 countries.

 

Yeah, like a couch surfed all along the way. I went a lot around a lot around Europe, but also India and Japan and Turkey and Morocco. And, and it really just opened me it was it was the best thing I ever did in my life.

 

Like for sure that really opened me on a path that forever, you know, forever changes trajectory. And so I think that just really took me on a path to that I was not going to live in a traditional normal path. And, you know, I actually the thing is, I actually really like I liked my job, I had a really great boss.

 

It was I always say he was like the best boss ever. That’s why I had to become an entrepreneur because I would never find a boss like that again. And so that could have stayed in that path for years and probably been like, you know, like kind of happy, but it wasn’t really quite it wasn’t quite the thing, you know, actually worked for the Department of Agriculture, if you can believe it.

 

But um, so I think it’s, you know, it’s like a it’s, it’s like a continual practice, you know, like it’s been 15, like 15 years. And I think you just continue, like, you know, continue to be led on different things, you know, sometimes like swerving some off the path at times, but I think especially being in the GOA community, I mean, that’s one of the greatest gifts from being in and having done an adventure is just, you know, Kira is so connected to God and to like listening. And I feel like it’s like a muscle, really, it’s like any other skill that you want to learn.

 

And I feel like she’s really helped me hone in myself more and more on like, just that really deep inner listening, and like connection to God. And, and definitely the books I’ve written, you know, come from it from a different place than me just like with my mind trying to like, come up with something to say was like actually like channeled and dialed in from a deeper place. That’s so beautiful.

 

Well, let’s go there. Because, you know, honestly, when I first met you, and I learned that you were Jen Kay of stylegasm, and your podcast is called close off. And I don’t think I would have guessed that you were, you know, a Jewish and Catholic background.

 

(14:21 – 21:29)

And that’s kind of what I love about my podcast is I’m here to dispel all the myths. Let’s just normalize that our journeys are unique to each of us. And what it boils down to is that we’re following our hearts, the path that we know is meant for us.

 

So tell us how all of that came about. I can’t wait to hear the story behind the story behind the story. So like, stylegasm and all of it.

 

Yeah, yeah. Well, I so I, I lived in, after my travels, and I’ve lived in the US, but ended up moving to Paris. And then some years after that, I actually lived in Bali, Indonesia.

 

So I did different things in the fashion industry. I work Paris, I worked in fashion PR, I call it my devil wears Prada, something like two years an hour and got yelled at by my mean bosses. So sounds glamorous on paper, but a little different in theory.

 

And then I just got burnt out from that. And then I moved to Bali, I wanted to start a fashion brand. So I had a small, like bespoke, made to order brand, and ended up closing it.

 

I had the brand for like three, four years, ended up closing it down, realizing I actually really don’t enjoy making product, and it wasn’t profitable, by a long shot. And, but I really had like a deeper connection with my clients, and that there was something there so much deeper than just like creating a jumpsuit for them. It was like, I really cared about having a deeper conversation about really like who they are, and their expression, and just the deeper meaning behind style.

 

So when I came back to the US, you know, I really thought intentionally about what it is that I want to name my brand. Because I had brands before, and my old brand was called Wildflower. And I just, I don’t know, I felt like there’s like, there’s tons of flower shops named Wildflower.

 

It wasn’t really quite like, memorable, wasn’t quite it. And the only in just as I, you know, stylegasm was like that, that was the, you know, the metaphor, memorable. Yeah, I wanted people to feel euphoric joy, you know, in their clothes.

 

And I always say, like, attract the right people, repel the wrong people. And I’m going to be too much for some people, but that’s okay. Like, those aren’t my people.

 

And, and yeah, and just, and actually give a talk today, like on the, on this route, it was all around like being too much, you know, and just like owning our too muchness and how we’ve just been conditioned and so that we can’t be too much. But it’s like, that’s who we are, you know? Just own it. Yeah, just own it.

 

Yeah. And then, so I started my podcast pretty recently, and I’ll be having some more coming out soon. But I wanted to, I called it Close Off because I wanted to, it’s like the conversations, deeper conversations around, around style and who we are and like our expression all throughout who we are, you know, in our clothes, without our clothes, how we make our, I don’t know, just different choices or different or just a full, a much like deeper expression of the divine feminine.

 

I love that so much. Yeah. I love all of the symbolism interlaced throughout everything that you do.

 

So you’ve written a chapter that was published in the very first volume from Mosaic Network. It’s called Mosaic Messages, Volume 1. And that was recently published. And you’re currently working on your own book as well.

 

Can you share a little bit about that? Tell us, you don’t have to give all of the details up, but just share a little. Yeah. Yeah.

 

So my book is called Radiant. And then the subtitle is So Why Are You Still Single? And I actually wrote the book, Why Are You Still Single, back when I lived in Bali in 2020. It was like my pandemic baby.

 

And I wrote it at the time because I had a lot of single clients in my business. And someone pointed out to me, well, why don’t you do an event for them? And it just ended up just being this thing that just took a life of its own. And I ended up laying it to rest in 2020.

 

And then I just, as being in this community, it just, I felt it, I felt the book really wanted to be revisited. And there was something more there that wanted to be explored. And really, you know, it’s taken people on a journey.

 

Because I think so often with like finding, you know, finding love, people put all the emphasis on like, well, where do you find a man and really, it’s your own inner and outer work to get in like, the fullest alignment of who you are. And that so you can easily attract that. And it was just, it was fascinating with the book, because as when I went on the adventure to write it, it’s the same process I do with styling of like, cleaning out the love closet and becoming a match and like owning your too muchness.

 

And, you know, and it was just, it was funny, even just writing it, just all the metaphors of like, women that buy a dress that’s, you know, a little bit too tight thinking, well, okay, well, maybe I’m gonna lose weight for it. Or maybe, you know, if it’s just like, it’s not quite right. And just be like, well, if it’s just not quite right, it’s not quite right.

 

It’s just like relationships to like, where we were women settle where they don’t ask for what they really want. And where it’s uncomfortable to go and, you know, go find the thing that’s actually like more high end, but it’s actually like what is really meant for you. If you’re able to just become a match to it, really.

 

I find myself wondering, because you you really have, you know, honed in on your niche on your, what’s the word on your, your brand, right? Your Jen’s brand, what you are all about, what your message is for the world. You know, I’m curious, what role, if any, do you think your, your faith might have played, like, sometimes we, we kind of absorb it, or we intertwine elements of it. And some, you kind of like, you run away from it, maybe you had a negative experience, or there were certain tenets that you had to, you know, follow and adhere to.

 

I mean, I know you grew up in kind of a, you know, open minded atmosphere in your home. But style, I mean, that’s a very specific choice. And I know that’s partly because that’s your interest, it’s your love, your heart is, is pulled to.

 

But, you know, when you think of the Catholic faith, or the Jewish faith, style of dress, you know, has, there’s kind of this traditional, in some ways, you know, expectation, maybe, or maybe I’m off, I don’t know, what are your, what comes up for you? And I bring this up? Yeah, that’s interesting. I’m, um, yeah, I mean, in a way, like, I feel like for me, my journey, because there’s like, there’s like religion, you know, it’s like this organized community of people. And like, in some way, I was never completely in it, if that makes sense, because I was a part of two.

 

(21:29 – 21:40)

And then even, you know, the Jewish kids, I didn’t actually go to school with them. It was just a Sunday school. And then, so, like, for me, like, faith is actually like, different than religion.

 

(21:40 – 24:45)

Yeah. And so, I think, yeah, so like, in some way, I never really felt like I found, I never really found God in either of those, to be honest. I think as a Jewish, I think it was just culture.

 

That’s honest. That’s real. Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that.

 

Like, so how would you describe your, I don’t know, spiritual practice, spiritual observance? Now, you mentioned how, yeah, in, in Kira’s world, any, any program or community that Kira has? Yes, she’s very with God with the divine. And so I have learned lots of new spiritual practices, just by being in her world. So yeah, yours, like right now, I would say, well, you know, yeah, I mean, I think it first started with yoga.

 

And then when I was 25, I went through like, really, really painful, like, relationship and breakup that, like, there’s that quote, like, the wound is the place that enters you, like, that was, like, the worst thing that ever happened, but also the thing that opened me up. And that’s when I really got into meditation. And then that led to, you know, more meditation that led to like, more exploration in like, the spiritual, different spiritual communities.

 

And I’ve been involved in many really, at different times, different things. So I would say, and you know, all of it has, all of it has had value. Sometimes you outgrow things, sometimes, like, I was very involved in, like, I was very involved in this, like, energy school.

 

And it definitely helped me a lot. And I still use aspects of the tools, but also realizing, like, you know, I still think like, I can still, I can connect, you know, in my own way, I don’t necessarily need that school to be my, like, connection to God. And I think I gave it a bit too much power.

 

So yeah, I think it really, I don’t know if I’m answering your question exactly. But I think it’s just, it’s like a continual. Yeah, it’s just continually, you know, like, honing in.

 

And, and knowing, yeah, just knowing how to, like, continue to, like, listen to that, to that voice. I feel that. Yeah, yeah.

 

That’s right. It’s like, it’s almost like layering, it kind of builds, you learn, yeah, or you get some new information or new insight, or you learn about someone else’s way that they experienced their faith with their spirituality. And some resonates, some may not.

 

And yeah, I totally agree. It’s, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, the last question I like to ask my guests, you know, my, my podcast is called living beyond the shadow of doubt.

 

So what does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt? Wow, so beautiful. Thank you. I mean, I feel like that that’s like what we strive for, right? Like, even now, I feel like I’m being called to do some, some, a few radical things coming up in a few months.

 

And I’m like, Oh, man, I have like, I want to like, hold on to that, like, live without a shadow of a doubt. Can you tell us what they are? Is that something you have to stay? Yeah, I can tell you. It’s kind of pretty simple.

 

(24:47 – 25:28)

A few things. I mean, I, I’m, yeah, I like just moved to LA right before all the fires happen. So I’m actually going to be, I guess, temporarily being a bit more nomadic in the next few months and going on a few trips.

 

One of them is actually going back to Bali. I haven’t been back since I left for over four years ago. And, and yeah, a few other trips.

 

One of them is doing this actual, like sacred ceremony. Yeah, this one, I can’t talk too much about all the details. Yeah, but I’ve been called to do this sacred ceremony on this land outside of the country.

 

(25:28 – 25:40)

And yeah, just, yeah, I just feel amazing. Yeah, I make it like an art. It’s like for you.

 

That’s fantastic. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for humoring me.

 

(25:41 – 25:47)

I loved this conversation. So I like to throw out some profound questions at the end. Yeah.

 

(25:47 – 26:00)

I’m looking for one word answers to tops. We’re just gonna tell us your favorite book, and it can be your own. Oh, my favorite book is a book called Mutant Message Down Under.

 

(26:00 – 27:07)

Actually I have two favorite, can I give you my two favorite books? Yes, you can. And the other one is called South of Forgiveness. Awesome.

 

Are you an introvert or an extrovert? Oh, introvert all the time. Yeah. And your favorite artist? Oh, like a visual artist? You pick.

 

You pick. I love Mark Rothko. Oh, abstract art.

 

Yeah. Would you consider yourself a night owl or a morning lark? I mean, I want to be a morning lark, but it just depends. It could go either way.

 

That’s valid. And who’s your celebrity crush? I can’t say I’ve ever had a celebrity crush. You don’t have to.

 

Yeah, that can be your answer. That’s fine. Yeah.

 

Do you still carbonated water, diet soda fan, or some other fun beverage? I really like tea. Awesome. And then matcha latte is like a treat too, but any good tea.

 

(27:08 – 27:12)

And then for this place you’ve traveled, you’ve traveled a lot. So. Yeah.

 

(27:12 – 27:53)

More than one. Well, from East coast, Bali, Bali, Malaysia is like literally the halfway point. Oh, it’s been like South Africa.

 

It’s pretty far too. Yeah. Awesome.

 

So fun to get to know you a little better. So if folks wanted to connect with you, find out more about your work, what’s the best way for them to do that? Yeah. Best way is to find me on Instagram.

 

I’m have a style. Okay. I will leave that in the show notes as well as the name of your book.

 

So folks can be watching for that. Thank you so much for your time and for joining me. Thank you.