Episode 156: Becoming a ‘Flockstar’ with Jonathan George

Meagan Skidmore: Hey everyone, welcome to today’s episode of Beyond the Shadow of Doubt. I’m Meagan Skidmore and today I have my new friend Jonathan George with me. We haven’t met in person, but I’m looking forward to getting to know you virtually. The school counselor here in my town is the one who suggested that you would be an amazing guest to bring on my podcast. So I’m really grateful to you, Jonathan, for agreeing to this conversation.

Jonathan George: Thank you for having me on here. Yeah, Sunnyvale—I was just there speaking. I love that she connected us. I’m really excited about today because I’m hoping we get to unlock things I never really get to speak about. Usually it’s all about business, personal branding, being influential. But this—this is the heart of my work and why I do what I do.

Meagan: That gives me chills. When I looked you up, I noticed you briefly mention your orientation on your website, and I wondered if you’d be okay talking about it here since your brand is more business-focused. I’m thrilled you’re ready to dive in and share the story behind the story.

Jonathan: Absolutely. I come from five generations of Pentecostal pastors. A huge family—very spiritual, very musical. My grandmother recorded four gospel albums and had hundreds at her funeral. Just beautiful, giving people. At 19, when I came out, a rumor spread. My dad asked me to go to Home Depot with him, and I just knew—this was the moment. My family deeply loved me, but I went through a lot of spiritual abuse—without manipulation, but out of fear. I was told I could never go to heaven, never walk in the gifts God gave me.

I moved to LA to pursue music. In 2001 I won Ed McMahon’s Next Big Star and had a record contract, but when they found out I was gay, the label pulled it. I was devastated. My team tried to change everything about me—even tried to get me married. That sent me spiraling: anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts. I thought, “If I can’t live out my purpose, what’s the point?” But I knew I wouldn’t lie about who I was. I leaned into self-discovery, then began coaching young talent. In helping them break through fears and lies about not being good enough, I discovered myself too. Today my clients collectively have over 150 million followers. I like to say: how do you like those jazz fingers now?

Meagan: Wow. What a powerful story. You leaned into authenticity when it wasn’t safe or popular. Stories like yours change hearts. None of us will agree on everything, but what matters is how we listen, how we interact, and how we love.

Jonathan: Exactly. Perspective is everything. I often use the analogy of kids facing different directions in a gym—everyone sees something different, but we’re all experiencing the same thing. That’s life. My parents saw me for who I was. And I refused to put myself in any more boxes—not the Christian box, not the straight box, not even the “gay box.” That’s why my work focuses on being. You’re not your labels, not your doing—you’re your being. And once you know who you are, you can show up powerfully.

Meagan: I agree. As a parent of a trans kiddo, I’ve realized how many boxes I’ve put around myself and others. Shifting to focus on being, on the inside-out, is everything. But it’s a process, especially for youth.

Jonathan: True. Confidence and resilience can be learned—and much faster with guidance. That’s what I do: help people uncover their “hook”—the emotional aftertaste others have after interacting with you. It’s like the hook of a song. Even if you don’t fully know who you are yet, you can decide how people will feel after meeting you. That intention changes how you show up.

Meagan: I love that. Maya Angelou said, “People will forget what you said, forget what you did, but they’ll never forget how you made them feel.”

Jonathan: Exactly.

Meagan: I’d like to rewind. You mentioned when your dad asked you to Home Depot, you knew the conversation was coming. What was that like?

Jonathan: Honestly, I was thankful. My dad was my biggest mentor. He loved me deeply. He did bring up programs like “Genesis”—conversion programs—but always from a place of love, not hate. I could feel his pain, believing I wouldn’t go to heaven. That was spiritual abuse, yes—but not intentional harm. And yet, my dad’s choice to love changed the trajectory of my life. For any parent listening: choose love. Always choose love.

Meagan: Beautifully said.

Jonathan: I also chose love. I didn’t respond to family resistance with anger or hate. I chose patience, empathy, and kindness. It took me 19 years to figure myself out—how could I expect my family to change overnight? Love wins when we embody it.

Meagan: Yes. Healthy boundaries are important too, but always with love. Let’s talk shame. You’ve mentioned it several times. How did you work through it?

Jonathan: Shame was huge. It chains you down. I studied Hebrew and Greek to understand what scripture actually said about homosexuality. What I found was freeing—those passages weren’t about same-gender love, but about dominance, prostitution, exploitation. That foundation helped me release shame. Still, experiences like being kicked off a church choir platform for living with my partner were painful. They let me clean toilets, but not sing. That was my breaking point with institutional church. Today, I attend a spiritual center inclusive of all. Shame no longer binds me.

Meagan: That’s so expansive. Fear shrinks us, but love and curiosity expand. If you could share pain points you still experience in navigating faith, identity, and profession, what would you say?

Jonathan: One is watching the trans community—like my nephew—face such misunderstanding and fear. I don’t pretend to know everything, but I do know we need to lean into love, listen with curiosity, and stop dismissing people’s experiences. Another is the shame we carry from definitive, black-and-white teachings that don’t match reality. We have to break free from that to live fully.

Meagan: Amen. Final question: my podcast is called Beyond the Shadow of Doubt. What does that mean to you?

Jonathan: To me, it’s what I call being a “rock star.” Not about music, but about living unapologetically in your gifts, flaws, and truth. No shame. No fear of judgment. Just walking in the light God created for you. Everyone has that rock star within. We just need the tools and the permission to unleash it.

Meagan: You found your calling by creating the space you needed, and in doing so you’re lighting the way for others. Thank you, Jonathan. This conversation has been powerful and beautiful.

Jonathan: Thank you. Blessings to everyone listening. Step into your power, your gifts, and your light.