Episode 150: Sun and shadow is wholeness, with Valerie Hamaker

Meagan Skidmore:
Welcome everyone to today’s episode of Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt. I’m Meagan Skidmore, your host, and I’m so excited to introduce you to Valerie Hamaker. Many of you listening will know her from the Latter Day Struggles podcast and community.

Full disclosure: I joined one of Valerie’s faith expansion groups about two years ago, and it was a huge blessing for me. She has created so much space for people who are in transition, asking questions, or expanding their faith. Valerie, welcome. Thank you for taking the time to be here.

Valerie Hamaker:
Thank you, Meagan. Thanks for those kind words. It was such a treat to have you in one of my groups, and it’s great to see your face again.

Beginnings of a Faith Journey

Meagan:
I like to normalize the uniqueness of faith journeys—each one is tailor-made. Having come from a conservative faith background, like the LDS faith, we were given checklists of what we should do, be, and accomplish. Differentiating from that is excruciating.

Most of my guests can point to a beginning—a moment when they started to feel or think differently. Do you have one?

Valerie:
Oddly enough, I don’t. My journey was gradual—long, slow, and even happening outside of my full consciousness.

The real beginnings go back to graduate school, when I was a young mother entering a counseling program. At that point, I was still conservative in my beliefs. I attended a Nazarene university—a conservative Christian school—which reinforced some of my orthodoxy. But as I began seeing clients, I realized I was closed-minded and judgmental.

My training emphasized openness and curiosity—the antithesis of judgment. I was taught that people heal when they feel seen and known in the presence of a loving other. That began changing me. Almost unconsciously, I started becoming more loving, more open, and realized I wasn’t “better” or “closer to God” than anyone else.

I had been socialized to believe my faith tradition gave me more truth. I came to see that wasn’t true—and that arrogance estranged me from people and maybe even from God. That was the real beginning.

Practicing Faith Differently

Meagan:
So it wasn’t a doctrinal issue, but more about how you embodied your faith in real life?

Valerie:
Yes. I remember vividly being taught that my role as a therapist was to mirror God’s unconditional love to my clients. That became my prayer before every session. And when you step into that with your whole heart, conditioned beliefs that don’t align with God’s love fall away.

That’s when I began questioning things I’d been taught—about queer people, about other religions. My love for my clients transcended those judgments.

Meagan:
That resonates. For me, it was proximity to my child—my love for them pushed me to wrestle with teachings that didn’t match my lived experience. For you, as a therapist, maybe it felt safer—you could release judgment without the same eternal stakes that LDS theology puts on families.

Valerie:
Yes. When it’s your partner or child, the pressure is higher because LDS theology ties salvation and family together. That creates fear, grief, and anxiety. Love often gets tangled with fear.

I’ve seen both outcomes: families choosing love over rigid theology, and others choosing belief systems over loved ones. For me, it wasn’t as personally threatening, which allowed compassion to flow more freely with clients.

A Curriculum from God

Meagan:
You still allowed doubts and questions in, though. What was that like?

Valerie:
During COVID, when life slowed down, I was reading deeply—philosophy, theology, Jungian psychology. The correlated LDS study materials bored me to tears. Meanwhile, these other books lit me up. Time disappeared; I felt pure intelligence pouring into me.

I realized: this is scripture too. Truth and beauty reside beyond what I thought. One pivotal book was by James Hollis, who wrote that true spirituality resonates with your soul—and anything that doesn’t is idol worship. That changed everything.

I believe God was preparing me, curating a curriculum: theology, psychology, marriage therapy, organizational behavior. All of it came together for the work I do now—helping individuals heal, and helping religious systems see how they sometimes wound.

Even my capacity for organizing and packaging information felt beyond me. I truly felt like a co-creator with God.

Meagan:
That’s beautiful. Like learning a new language that illuminates your native tongue. Your reading didn’t erase your LDS roots—it expanded them.

Navigating Faith and Community

Meagan:
It’s one thing to explore in academia; it’s another to share in your faith community. What was that like for you?

Valerie:
Complicated. I’ve lived in the same conservative LDS congregation in Jackson County, Missouri for over 20 years. For most of that time, I was very orthodox, very visible, even celebrated as a stalwart leader.

So when I started my podcast, it likely felt abrupt and threatening to them. Conservative faiths don’t often welcome candid conversations about doubt.

Locally, it’s been lonely. I’ve had a small circle of support, but also quiet avoidance, inquisition, even concern for my salvation. But I’ve never once regretted it. I feel called to do this work. I know I’m on the side of truth and love, even without validation from my tribe.

And through it all, my husband has come with me. Without him, I’m not sure I could have been as bold.

Safe and Brave Spaces

Meagan:
Finding safe spaces is crucial before we can step into brave ones. You’ve created those spaces for many of us. What advice would you offer to listeners?

Valerie:
I love the term “brave spaces.” Here’s what I’ve seen:

The early stages of a faith journey are traumatic—your worldview flips, and it’s disorienting. In that stage, the work is to tend your soul: grieve, rage, make meaning. Don’t try to renegotiate relationships yet; it’s too much.

Once you’ve healed enough to see your journey as sacred and feel tethered to God, then you can engage loved ones. Sometimes it goes beautifully. Other times, loved ones are too paralyzed by fear, and you can’t pull them closer until they’re ready.

At that point, the work is compassion—reshaping the relationship, honoring their comfort zone, and seeking depth elsewhere.

Meagan:
That’s so wise. Safe spaces help us gain strength to move into brave spaces.

Valerie:
Yes. Safe spaces are like a soft place to land—where you don’t feel crazy, bad, or alone. From there, you can go “out into the wild” more fortified.

Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt

Meagan:
My final question: what does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt?

Valerie:
In my former life, “beyond a shadow of a doubt” meant certainty. Now, I don’t strive for certainty, except one thing: that all of us are beloved children of God.

Everything else—I hold loosely. If it doesn’t flow toward God and love, I unlearn it.

The word “shadow” is meaningful too. Wholeness means acknowledging both sun and shadow—the goodness and the wounds. Accepting both in myself helps me accept both in you. That’s how we embody, emanate, and receive love.

Meagan:
That is exquisite. You are both sun and shadow—that makes us whole.

Rapid-Fire Fun

Meagan:
Favorite book?

Valerie:
Crossing to Safety by Wallace Stegner. I’ve read it many times.

Meagan:
Introvert or extrovert?

Valerie:
Introvert who can look like an extrovert.

Meagan:
Favorite artist?

Valerie:
The Indigo Girls—the poetry of their music has been with me since high school.

Meagan:
Night owl or morning lark?

Valerie:
Night owl, unfortunately!

Meagan:
Celebrity crush?

Valerie:
1990s Brad Pitt—A River Runs Through It era.

Meagan:
Still or carbonated?

Valerie:
Mostly water with electrolytes—I have low blood pressure, so it helps me not faint!

Meagan:
Furthest you’ve traveled?

Valerie:
Central America and the French Caribbean.

Connect with Valerie

Valerie runs Latter Day Struggles processing groups, with new cohorts starting in November (Tuesdays at 12:30pm CT). She also hosts the Latter Day Struggles podcast (twice weekly) and is preparing a new program called Growing Up in a Patriarchy to help people cultivate healthy masculine and feminine energies.

Links to her website, podcast, and socials are in the show notes.

Meagan:
Valerie, thank you. You are a beautiful soul, doing such good work. I’m privileged to know you.

Valerie:
Thank you, Meagan. It’s a privilege to be your friend.