Episode 149: Expanding Spiritual Horizons w/ Emilie Sanders and Ashlie Call of ‘That’s Church!’ Podcast, part 2

Host (Meagan Skidmore):
Our podcast is about interfaith conversations—different spiritual beliefs, perspectives, and ideas. Within families and communities, differences arise around gender, sexuality, spirituality, or other deeply held values. How do you handle that in your space?

Meagan:
Great question. I think it helps to remember that relationships come in many forms: between two people, between an individual and a group, or even between a person and an institution.

When there are differing viewpoints, especially around gender or sexuality, I come back to this: share stories. In healthy relationships, you don’t argue with someone or dismiss their lived experience. You listen. Ideally, you also learn something you didn’t know before.

Truth can be tricky. But I see truth as that inner wisdom—your core, your integrity. It will speak to you differently than it speaks to someone else, because your life circumstances are unique.

So listening is sacred ground. You don’t have to agree, but you also don’t have to argue or debate. Conservative faith traditions sometimes struggle here because of the emphasis on “bearing testimony” with certainty—“knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt.” That can make it difficult to honor someone else’s different truth.

Listening Across Differences

Emily:
Yes. Listening opens a whole new world. But honestly? For me, it’s been harder to validate people within my own faith who think differently than I do, compared to learning about completely different religions. That’s been tricky.

One thing that’s surprised me is how much we gain when we simply show up to learn. Recently, we visited a Lutheran church. They invited us to their service and barbecue afterward—bouncy houses, food, the works! The congregation was so warm. We interviewed people and listened to their stories.

After one interview, a man thanked us. He said he’d once visited an LDS church and had a negative experience. Meeting us reframed his perception. We weren’t trying to do that—we just showed up with openness—but it mattered to him.

So often, people are afraid to hear something new. But when you listen, you gain so much—and you create peace without even realizing it.

Meagan:
I love that. I had a similar experience visiting the Community of Christ. Two women I met were lifelong members, and one traced her ancestry back to Nauvoo—like me. She said, “I bet our ancestors knew each other.” That moment was healing. We forget how much more alike than different we are. Love itself is a power, an energy—it heals and connects us.

Emily:
Yes. That reminds me of a quote from Les Misérables: “To love another person is to see the face of God.” There are so many different faces of God—across political parties, religions, skin colors.

We once spoke with a rabbi who reminded us that Judaism and Islam are cousins. That imagery hit me deeply. If we could see other faiths as cousins—raised in different households, but of equal worth—so much healing could happen.

Relationship with the Divine

Meagan:
How has your faith journey—asking questions, feeding curiosity—shaped your relationship with the Divine?

Emily:
A few years ago, I asked everyone I knew—friends, family, even atheists—about their relationship with God, or the universe, or whatever they believed in. It was amazing to hear their perspectives.

Then, through our podcast, I learned even more—from atheists, witches, Buddhists, and traditional Christians. Each offered a different lens.

For me, God has always been love. But love doesn’t erase evil by force. It inspires us to take action. God can’t force change, but God is the love present even in suffering.

I picture God as Jesus—humble and powerful, healing the blind, loving unconditionally. I also believe in Heavenly Mother. I picture her kindness in someone’s eyes, the warmth of my mother’s embrace, the sun on my face. Sometimes she’s fierce in red, compassionate in blue, angelic in white, or bold in black.

Meagan:
That’s beautiful.

Life Transitions & Coaching

Emily:
Your coaching niche is life transitions. What advice do you have for people navigating them?

Meagan:
The most important thing to remember is that transitions aren’t linear—they’re cyclical. They come in waves. You don’t need to know every step ahead of you; if you’re following a ready-made path, someone else built it. Being a trailblazer means laying one cobblestone at a time.

Discomfort is part of it. We’re not good at tolerating discomfort, and our culture offers endless escapes—screens, food, distractions. But sitting with emotion is a skill. When we avoid, we suffer more.

In my Unlocking Your Voice group program, I focus on three things:

• Emotional resilience—learning to sit with discomfort.

• Identity work—separating yourself from old stories you’ve carried.

• Core values—rediscovering what matters most to you.

These create powerful shifts and help people move through transitions with compassion for themselves.

Ashley:
That’s so inspiring. You really do let people be who they are—you hold space without trying to change them.

Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt

Meagan:
I ask all my guests: what does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt?

Emily:
For me, doubt once felt negative. I was even told, “Don’t rehearse your doubts with doubters.” But that advice felt wrong.

I think doubt opens us to wonder. As the song from Smallfoot says: “A life that’s full of wonder is a wonderful life.” I don’t need my spirituality in a box anymore. Doubt creates space for curiosity, conversation, and mystery.

Ashley:
For me, it’s about growth. Certainty can get us stuck. Doubt stretches us, forces us beyond comfort, and helps us see new perspectives.

Meagan:
I’ll answer too. For me, doubt has transformed from shame into possibility. It’s expansive. I don’t call my journey a faith crisis—I call it a faith expansion. Faith and fear both ask us to believe in what we cannot see. The difference is: we get to choose.

Rapid-Fire Fun

Meagan: Favorite book?

• Faith After Doubt by Brian McLaren, or anything by Brené Brown.

Emily: Pride and Prejudice—my all-time favorite.

Ashley: The Little Prince.

Meagan: Introvert or extrovert?

• Meagan: Introvert.

• Emily: Extrovert, but tiring as I get older.

• Ashley: Extrovert, though Covid shifted me more inward.

Meagan: Night owl or morning lark?

• Meagan: Neither—I just sleep when my body needs.

• Emily & Ashley: Night owls (we text at 2am!).

Meagan: Favorite artist?

• Meagan: Imagine Dragons, Lenny Kravitz.

• Emily: Matchbox 20, plus the Somewhere in Time soundtrack.

• Ashley: The Staves, Sufjan Stevens.

Meagan: Celebrity crush?

• Meagan: Simon Baker (The Mentalist).

• Emily: Ryan Reynolds.

• Ashley: Gene Wilder (in Willy Wonka).

Meagan: Furthest place traveled?

• Meagan: New Zealand, Russia.

• Emily: France, Ireland, Amsterdam.

• Ashley: Amsterdam—could see myself living there.

Closing

Ashley & Emily:
Thank you for this conversation. You create such a safe, welcoming space.

Meagan:
And you both are trailblazers too. I’ll link your Instagram and info in the show notes.

Emily:
And for those local—we’re hosting an interfaith event November 2nd at Compass Gallery in Provo with Patrick Mason, Muslim, LDS, and Community of Christ speakers, plus an interfaith couple. Details will be on our Instagram.

Meagan:
Beautiful. Thank you both. This has been such a meaningful conversation.