Episode 114: I want to live in a world with sunrises and sunsets w/ Becky Belnap

Meagan – Hey? Everyone welcome to today’s episode of the Beyond, the shadow of doubt. Podcast

I have Becky Bell Knapp

with me here today.

and Vick Vicki. I have known you for quite some time, mostly virtual.

We did get to give one another a big hug last September, when we got to meet in person

at gather conference, and I appreciated that hug very much.

Becky – Yeah, I like to.

Meagan – I like to get to know people in person. Yes, same. and I am grateful to have you here today with me, and in your willingness to

be open

about who you are and your journey and Just

how things have been for you as a fellow parent of of a child who identifies as as transgender

the end of March. Is March 30. Well, obviously, March 30. First is

transgender day of visibility

visibility, awareness.

Becky Belnap – I’m not sure

Meagan – I’ll cut this part out. I’m gonna collapse so that it will make some.

I should. I should have looked that up.

Oh, goodness, sorry

it is. Okay.

So march 30. First is international transgender day of visibility.

And has been for quite some time. So thank you for

being willing to come on and share your journey is specifically, is it?

It does relate to having a child who identifies as transgender. So to get started. Tell us about yourself. Just we’d like to get to know you. Your background.

you know where you grew up, your family, your faith of origin.

anything that

you’d love to let us to to share with us, and it’s, you know, pertinent to your story.

Becky – Yeah, I grew up in Ora, Utah, which automatically is a clue into which religion I grew up in. I grew up in

the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That’s what my parents raised me in, and and and I am still an active Latter-day Saint.

But you know. My faith, I have been on a faith journey, and my faith,

looks a little bit different than it used to. is probably a fair way to say it. My husband and I had the opportunity to live internationally. So

we moved a lot, and dragged our children with us for for better or for worse. Some of them enjoyed it, and some of them

struggled through it, but I think it made us

richer in the sense of being able to understand other cultures and

embrace other people and other ways of thinking. So so it was good. It was a fun, adventurous life, and I am

Now. I just started a new

adventure. I’m in my. I’m just ending my first year of

my master’s program in social work at the University of Utah.

and I’ve been doing they require you to do a practicum

kind of like an internship as you go to school, and so I’ve been

being student, therapist. So that’s been a really great

learning opportunities. I have one more year of that, and then I’ll

start doing all the other requirements. It is to become an L to become an Lc. SW, so that’s the that’s my goal.

Meagan – That is fantastic. You will make an amazing Lcsw.

I didn’t realize you were in grad school right now, way to go. Yeah, I’m gonna be 60 in June. So it’s so I just want to mention that to, you know. Just encourage anyone else who is

Becky – ready to have an adventure in their in their.

you know, later than their twenties or thirties. So it’s always doable.

Meagan – Yeah, it’s never too late to reinvent ourselves. I

have learned that and continue to learn that.

Yeah.

there’s lots. There’s lots that can be great about each decade of our life if each phase of our life.

Becky – Yeah, I’m so it’s so fun to learn and to grow. I’m really So really a fan of that

I should mention that I have 5 children and 4 grandchildren almost 5, and in April I’ll I’ll have 5 grandchildren, so

they are happy parts of my life

Meagan – awesome. They’re lucky

they are lucky to have you.

So you so you were born in Orem raised in the Lds faith, with your parents.

you had other siblings that you grew up with.

Yeah, there were 8 of us. There were 8 of you. Okay? And you said you’re still active, although that looks differently than

perhaps it used to.

I thank you for saying that

because one thing that I’ve learned through all the people, all the guests that I’ve

had the privilege of chatting with

on this podcast is that faith journeys are

they are personal. and they are a gift.

And the more that we allow that uniqueness

to come through for us, that that authentic experience that we have

as our faith evolves, expands, changes as we grow, and our horizons broaden.  it’s really a gift

from the divine, I believe. Because it’s it’s something that

that that journey is what is allowing us to cultivate that relationship with the divine. And so I would love

if you could take

a few minutes here and share with us as much as you’re comfortable. I know you said you’re an open book,

but genuinely as much as you feel comfortable like. What about

your journey, or or I guess your practice of faith looks different

now than than it used to, and just kind of

what that has been like. And and

maybe even when you first started to realize, wait a second.

I don’t know how I feel about this thing or

II used to think XYZ. And

now ABC, kind of feels a little bit more

like it makes sense, or

or perhaps I should, you know, consider this other thing as well, or

I don’t know if that gives you an idea kind of just share with us what it’s like.

yours is like.

Becky – yeah, yeah, it’s There’s so much to so much to share. Let me see how I can condense it. Maybe I would see that the catalyst of my faith journey was my child. My oldest child came out as transgender as an adult and that just got me. you know. kind of wrestling with that because I wanted I mean I loved her, but I realized at some point that there was a difference between me, thinking that I loved her and her actually feeling loved by me.

And so I you know, as a lot of parents, I’ve you know, I’ve talked talked to and read stories from a lot of parents of transgender

kids, especially lbs, parents and kind of you know that it’s it’s You know, those beginning stages are are rough because you’re just really battling against what you thought things were. and what. and seeing life seen things as as they really are. Right.

One of my! I’ll just share a couple of maybe key moments.

I had one of the thing that’s been really beautiful about how God has led me. Through my faith journey is that He has often taught me, by putting a Scripture in my head and having me kind of wrestle with what that means for me, and the certain situation. I’ll give you maybe a couple of examples of that

Meagan – I’d love that

Becky –  I guess. The first time it happened was when my oldest child decided not to go on a mission and I just thought. no, that’s you know I have this. I have this script written, and this is how it’s supposed to be. And then the Holy Ghost popped a Scripture into my head. And the Scripture was, the race is not to the Swift.and that’s in Ecclesiastes. And so in that momentary flash of illumination, I knewthat this was going to be a lifelong journey. This was not the quick fix of a 2 year mission. My task was to stop being so frantic and to settle down into a patient’s rhythm with this child and

maybe fast forward to another example when my child requested that I use her preferred pronouns. I was really struggling with this and my Heavenly Father knew that I was struggling with that. and he also knew that I was kind of stuck skeptical of some sources of information. But I’m at my heart, and my mind were open to personal revelation.

And so one day, the story of Ammon and King Lemonai from the Book of Mormon just randomly appeared in my head and I thought it was so strange, but this time it was presented to me from a different perspective. I thought, why would Amon join leagues with the wicked king, Lamoni? And why would he say that he might stay with him his whole life?

King Lamoni was not the kind of person that I would want to hang out with, much less serve. For goodness sake he killed a servant for poor job performance. So why didn’t Em and lecture the king? How could he love King Lamoni?

But he did.

Meagan – Yeah, I don’t want to interrupt your beautiful storytelling here for the benefit of those who are listening that are not of the Lds faith would you mind giving just a brief synopsis of this story that you’re referring to of Ammon and King Lemon. I just is kind of you know, background to why, then, this this personal inspiration and revelation you felt was coming to you was so meaningful.

Becky – Yeah, so and wanted to serve a mission among a different people that were a different what we might call tribe that were not that were of a different religion. And he

went willingly and the part of the story that really resonates with, resonated with me during that time frame of my life when I was you know I’ve been really immersed in this.

As I was raised, I was immersed with the idea of we should, in order to be a righteous people, we should hang out with other people that are righteous right?

And so here’s Ammon going in to hang out with someone who was really wicked. He was murdering his servants, and and so I was faced with that he thing that didn’t didn’t quite match up with what I had been taught in my younger years. And so, as I saw that Ammon was staying, he was not only staying, he was loving this

wicked man and he was figuring out what Lamoni’s love language was and how to carry out that love language and King Lamoni the evil king, was so astonished at how faithful Ammon was, and taking care of his sheep and his horses, and doing everything that he was asked to do.

And so, in other words, in other words, Ammon had succeeded in loving King Lamoni in the way that he wanted to be loved.

and that was what that was what God was trying to get me to understand that the Holy Ghost had pop this story into my head to teach me what my job was. My job wasn’t to assess whether or not my child was worthy of my love, or whether I supported her script or her journey or even understood her gender dysphoria. My only job was to love her and not in a way that felt comfortable to me but in a way that she felt loved and valued and included in our family.

I needed to speak her love language, and that meant calling her by a new name that she had chosen, and using her preferred pronouns and

at that point I realized that I needed to stop asking God to change her and to start asking God to change me and I needed to ask Him to show me more ways how I could help my child feel loved by me.

And so so, Ammon taught me to love people right where they are. And and then, as I thought about it, I thought, You know what that’s exactly how Jesus is right. That’s what Jesus teaches us. He he visits with the adulterous Samaritan woman at the well. He protects the adulterous woman from being stoned. He eats dinner with tax collectors and sinners, he he lets the sinful woman wash his feet.

Everything he does is scandalous to the Pharisees.

but Jesus extends acceptance and love and open arms often before they repent or change.

and he doesn’t condemn them, he inspires them to become better

right, they leave his presence rejoicing even when he stated their sins, they left feeling heard and seen and understood, and loved and valued. And so that is that became my goal to be like Jesus to love people where they are

Meagan –  yeah, I, love, how you are or have and sounds like, you continue to do so you are separating.Your thoughts. your feelings, your beliefs about what was happening for your child. In this case it was serving a mission. Right?

Becky – The the first case. Yeah.yeah, this is a little bit later this part. But yeah.

Meagan – So the first time when your child decided not to serve a mission, and then the second time when they shared with you about their identity coming out as

Becky – transgender, basically

Meagan – that you’re separating that from the the core issue which is to just love right, and to take responsibility for whatever emotions you’re having about it. or feeling about it. Whatever thoughts that you have about it, which is another way of saying our beliefs right? Our beliefs is our our thoughts, that we’ve just had many, many, many, many times over. So sometimes we ha have a really hard time kind of loosening those thoughts and taking a step back and reexamining them and deciding is that. or, you know. reexamining, reexamining them and determining is that. you know really true? Or could there be another way to look at it? I guess. And you know, even though you’re talking about.

Yes, Jesus did eat with sinners. He he didn’t condemn those who, you know maybe could have he. He didn’t judge them. He didn’t condemn them. And

I don’t. I don’t think that you’re kind of connecting that with a person who identifies in this way as though they are you know, doing something that’s wrong or that they shouldn’t be. They’re just genuinely sharing. This is my experience.

Becky – right? Right? I’m not saying that transgender people are sinners. I’m just saying Jesus was opening open to loving anybody wherever they were ex. Except except for the religious leaders. He was a little bit harsh with them, and I just wanted to make sure that was. You know II know you, and I know that II think I know enough of your heart that that’s where you were coming from, when you meant that because Jesus also did sit with the marginalized, the ones who were outcasts, for whatever reason, for you know, monetary reasons for other demograph demographics.

Meagan – political reasons, and so on.

His just at the very core of who he was, and I’ll say, is

is just loving

right. I love your story. how you felt the divine teaching you God teaching you. You just needed to learn how to speak your child’s love language.

Becky – Yeah. And and this this story is from. you know, 8 years ago. So that was where I was 8 years ago. And so that is how God needed to reach me at that point in my thinking. And my

Meagan – and I would venture to say that’s still absolutely epic, applicable. Insight to. I’m sure you’re really. You’re like fluent in this language. Now. yeah.

Becky – II like to think I am.

Meagan – But what a beautiful concept, though it’s an ongoing thing. And there’s always a little bit more we can learn. There’s a little bit more that we can. You know. We can dig a little more deep deeply and continue to broaden and expand both ourselves and our connections with others in our relationships especially when it comes to our children.

Becky – Yeah, I mean, that is I You know I cherish my relationships with my children, and you know, obviously, raising having raised particularly that older, oldest child in the church. There’s some some religious trauma because of. you know not being you know. However, she felt at that point in her life. She didn’t transition till she was an adult, but just yeah. Now, now I’m at the point where I can see I can understand the religious trauma that she experienced, and you know I never would have understood that, you know, 8 or 10 years ago III would have been. But the church is so healing and beautiful for me, and therefore everyone. But now I’m in the point where I can hold other people’s story and realize other people have different experiences and religion, and I am willing to walk with them wherever they are.

Meagan – Would you be willing? I appreciate you bringing it. That’s a it’s a hard thing, a hard one for some folks to grasp, I believe. How somebody like you said yourself.

It wouldn’t have crushed your mind. Your experience in the church throughout your life had been a very beautiful one and I would say mine was too right. Can you speak to this idea of the religious trauma that your child experienced? What that what that means, especially for those who may not you know, have had this experience with

a child, or even somebody close to them, or a loved one. Because let’s be honest, that kind of forces it for those of us who haven’t ever thought about it before. Right?

Can you just speak to that. What? What do you mean by that religious trauma?

Becky – Well this is gonna be different for every single person right over they receive it, and I can’t really speak for my child, but from what I’ve observed from

Meagan – that’s fair. I appreciate you saying that coffee, of course. Of course.

Becky – Yeah, from what I’ve read and observed, and listen to other queer people. They don’t feel welcome at church. They are not able to bring their full selves to church right? They have to sort of be a surface of themselves at church, and also they have to hear things at church that are difficult for them to hear things that aren’t a reality for them that they can never be able, for example, be able to be married in the Temple.

And so when someone gives a hopeful lesson on. You know families can be together forever. To them. It’s painful and not hopeful.

Meagan – Yes and II appreciate you. I’m sorry I didn’t mean to put you or your your child on the spot. But yes, I, in those that I have also met with, spoke with.

Read about lots of when you are. you know, a parent of a, of a queer child. You get to meet a lot of other fellow parents. And yes that is definitely something you could kind of uses a blanket statement. They don’t feel They can be their full selves at church. They don’t feel welcome because of that. They feel like they have to put on a facade

of who they are versus actually feeling free to not just show up as their true selves, who they really feel they are on the inside, but by extension, you know, feel accepted and seen and loved when they. if they were to do that.

Becky – Yes, and I would encourage people to listen to stories of queer people to really be able to feel pain that they experience. My child, transition as an adult, as I said. And so I didn’t have to go through a lot of the pain that I see. Some of my friends go through where their

child is not welcome in

meetings that are separated by gender. And so that is a big pain point for those

children in those and the parents of those children in the church.

Meagan – Yeah, yes, it is I. Have been interviewed, and my my kid always younger when they came out, and that was some of our experience.

But that’s in other places. That I’ve been interviewed. I wondering if you would be willing to personally, as a parent shares some of the pain points for you. You know you talked about an actual. queer person going and maybe hearing a lesson about eternal families that yeah, I remember growing up. That was a very hopeful lesson, right? But for a queer person there’s just there’s not a place at that table for them.

Can you share a little bit about how you personally, as a parent you know, navigate that space, that intersection of being a parent of a queer child, transgender child and a person of faith.

Becky – Yeah, yes, it’s Wow! It’s it can be really complex, right? Because my child doesn’t want me to belong to a church that doesn’t accept them. And and yet this is still a space where I feel like this is where god wants me to be, and I feel like it’s a place place where I can still or I can still grow. I can still become a better person by brushing up against people who who are at different places in there thinking about queer people.

it’s a place where I can learn to love people that are difficult for me to love. I really think it’s valuable to be in if if one has the emotional capacity which a lot of people have been have made the choice that they don’t have the so that it’s not safe or healthy for them to be at church, but for me I can be a church, and I can be a different voice in the room, and I can work on loving people where they are and also showing a different way.

Meagan – I appreciate your genuineness in answering that question, Becky, and also you’re acknowledging that that is. I believe that’s a gift that you have to be able to go and be in the room and be a different voice present a different alternative way of looking at whatever the lesson might be about because that’s not often II try to, and it’s hard. It’s really hard.

So thank you for acknowledging that it’s it really can depend on the person right? We all have different gifts. We all have different emotional and mental capacities, just like.

you know your analogy in the beginning of the Scripture and Ecclesiastes that you brought up.Basically, it sounded like God was telling you. This is a Marathon, Becky, and it’s a spiritual Marathon. It’s it’s an emotional Marathon. It’s a mental physical. And you know what we’re all not going to run the Boston Marathon. And that is okay. We’re all not meant to. There is something there for everybody. There is a place our gifts are needed there. There’s a place for all of our gifts. Right? And I really really believe that. And I think thank you for for sharing that and for being real about it. I think both are needed to create this necessary tension. Really. otherwise, there wouldn’t be a reason to give these complex matters and issues any attention, right? It would just be like, Oh, okay, the flowers are growing. Everything’s just as it is, you know, as it’s always been as it should be quote unquote, should right.

Becky –  and I think God calls us each to a different calling. Right? There are There are spaces that we can love and serve and teach for each one of us, and my ability to hold the space for all kinds of people has has really expanded.  you know I’m at the University of Utah. So that’s a whole different demographic than when I go to church. And in my practicum right now the place where I am a student therapist I am. Most of my clients are domestic violence offenders, and so I’m learning to hold space for the complexity of their lives.

And I just really I’m just really grateful for what God has called me to do, to be able to hold and not to say that I’m perfect at it. But but just every time I step into uncomfortable places I can, I can see myself growing. And it’s and it’s it’s exciting.

Meagan – Yeah. so sometimes I talk about this idea of brave spaces and safe spaces.

You know, a safe space. That’s kind of a luxury to think that we can. Actually. we’d like to think we can go somewhere like a community, a community where we have in the past. Perhaps Felt warm, felt welcomed safe. and so on

for those in the queer community I’ve learned they can’t assume, or that’s something they just don’t take for granted that they can go in and share and be who they are, and create a safe space, those that are allies, they or or parents, for instance, they might be able to do a little bit more of that work. But I’ve really learned it’s about just creating brave spaces. and that starts with the one and you know you. You’ve mentioned how

you are that alternative voice in the room. and that can’t be easy, especially. You’ve been on this journey for a while you mentioned approximately 8 years.

you know. So you’ve I’m guessing you’ve grown into some. You’ve grown into that role. It didn’t just happen overnight.

Becky – No, no, it was a process, and it just feels so liberating to be out to be out as a parent of a transgender child. I came out to my whole stake. My stake President, a couple of years ago, invited me to give a talk at the Saturday evening session. and it was such a beautiful moment for me to be able to see that I could.

But I just own this. It’s not It’s not something I’m embarrassed of in any way. Is this just my life? This is things as they really are, and this is the gift that God has given me of a transgender daughter, because she has been such a catalyst for my growth. and I’m so grateful for that

Meagan – as am I, and as are many others, I know that’s that’s fantastic. So that’s you know. that was 6 years in. It sounds like 6 years into your journey that you were then speaking in front of a relatively large group of people. And so anybody that’s listening.

That’s either a parent or maybe you’re an aunt or uncle. You know your you’re a teacher in some capacity. You know, you have contact with, or connections with kids that are that identifies transgender or non binary or queer in some way.  it doesn’t happen overnight. but it also doesn’t need to be.

It doesn’t need to just you know, starting in in something as simple, but yet so profound as trying to learn their love language that moves mountains.

Becky – So I think one of the books that helped me along the way was Brene Brown’s book braving the wilderness, and it just helped me to really visualize what I was doing, and gave me the courage. 2. Just keep going and keep growing

Meagan – Can you share. you know, as as you have gotten, you know we’ll just call it more brave. Okay, you’ve been more open, you know, in a, in a more public way about your journey  and in this case it’s you shared this experience of speaking in front of a large group of people.

Of your faith community. I don’t think that’s the only I know you. That’s not the only time that you have been open. I know you and I are in quite a few.

We’ll call them parent groups support groups that are private and I know that you share in in those as well. When you have been open. When you have put your we’ll say your heart out there like this is me. This is what’s going on. This is my truth.

You know what what has the reception been like? And you can be honest? Maybe sometimes it’s it’s not been great. In other times. Perhaps some one has shared with you in a private, more, more private way. Thank you for for doing that. You’ve helped me. You know we’re we’re open to hearing all of it this podcast

Becky – Fortunately for me, I have had really positive reactions to things that I have shared. And I’m sure, there are people that disagree with me, but they just keep quiet. That’s and that’s okay with me. I come….you know. Part of the privilege of of getting older is you get more you trust yourself more and you trust other people’s opinions of you less. and so I don’t. Just one funny story that pops into my head. I was A year after I gave that talk and stay conference. I ran into a woman in the Temple, and she said, You’re in my stake. I said, Oh, really, I didn’t recognize her, never seen her before. And she said.

Yeah, you gave that talk at State Conference. This is a year after I gave the talk, who remembers State Conference a year later. I don’t. And she said, you really believe what you said, don’t you? And I said yes. and so she was still gnawing on it, and that made me happier than any person that gave me a compliment because that’s what I wanted. I want people to think about things,

Umhm

and and that’s precisely why on Facebook, I have for my profile pick. For several years I’ve had a picture of me and my transgender daughter. And I want it’s because I want people. I want my Facebook friends to have to engage in that I want them to have to look at that and say is Becky allowed to love her child?

I want them to have that wrestle, because I know. That’s where some people are at with transgender people. And so that’s why that’s why I do that. It’s sort of a it’s sort of a silent sermon, but that is always there on Facebook. And I think it’s been effective for some people just that silent sermon, because sometimes people don’t take too well to being preached at, but that one is just always there.

Meagan – Yeah, that’s a great approach to sharing very authentically. without really saying too much.

Becky – Yeah, I love her.

I stand with her, I support her.

She is worthy of love, and belonging. She

is a cherished human being

Meagan – absolutely.

I agree. 100%. you mentioned something. I wanted to go back. Okay. you shared that. This woman saw you in the Temple in one of our Lds temples

about a year after you gave that talk, and as you said, she was still gnawing on it.

Said you really believe what you said?

What would What would you offer to someone

who

were to ask, you know, or or

try to have a conversation with you about the veracity of your child’s claims like

you don’t really believe. That’s how they. you know, identify that they’re really an XYZ. You know, gender, or whatever like. What would your what words

would you offer to?

It doesn’t have to be a parent, but it could be. It could just be somebody who who’s, you know, ears

perked up in a meeting such as that one.

Becky – Yeah, I think talking to someone who is coming from a religious paradigm.  often you know, the argument that they might use. Is God created male and female?

Meagan – Yeah.

Becky – And to that I would say. yes, he did. And he divided the light from the darkness. Yet in between the light and the darkness are some fleeting moments of a soft colorful glow of light that we call sunrise and sunset and I want to live in a world with sunrises and sunsets

Meagan – that’s really

Becky – sorry, and trans people with their magnificent, courageous luminosity.

I don’t believe in fear or hatred.

I believe in loving my neighbor as myself. I believe in showing mercy. in judging not. and in condemning not.

and every day, you know, II always think of the the parable of the Good Samaritan, and every day we travel that road to Jericho and we decide, judge between judgment or mercy. Who is my neighbor? Will I pass by on the other side. Who was the good neighbor? He that showed mercy.

Meagan – This is why I don’t post the videos that is profoundly touching and beautiful. I echo your words, Becky. I also want to live in a world of sunrises and sunsets.

because, wow! They’re a work of art. They’re beautiful, and there is not one single sunset or sunrise that is the exact same as another. They’re all different.

Becky – And they were all created by a beautiful artist.

Our God is a beautiful artist, and he created so many beautiful things. And why are we rejecting some of his beautiful creations?

Meagan – That that is, that is just beautiful. I love it so so much and I want to kind of. I think. Tie this up with the a lovely bow on that note. and the and the last question I want to ask you, though, before doing that you know, I started this podcast

because this journey, you know, II realized how resistant I was to

various questions that came up, or doubts.

There was some shame that would come up. There was this fear that I would be seen as a non believer or not faithful. or even

apostate, just for asking questions. just for trying to contemplate and dive deep into what was really going on in my life. and in my reality, really.

And so

I chose the the name of this podcast on purpose, beyond the shadow of doubt, trying to get rid of that

that often negative, shameful connotation associated with doubts

and questions.

And so I ask you, what does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt?

Becky – You know, is it okay if I read to you a Facebook post that I wrote about this topic,

Meagan – please do.

Becky – And somewhere along the way I confused certainty with trust. the tightly gripped. This is how things are going to be certainty as opposed to things as they really are. Trust.

The trouble is that when we are certain of things we don’t need to trust him. That’s when the storm comes, and we, panic, crying out, Carest thou not that we perish?

He calmly answers, why are ye so fearful?

Why is it that you have no faith? And now he has my attention, and now I need him and now I am ready to learn to trust him.

It feels more like humility than certainty did. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. but when you fall into his warm embrace you will never go back to certainty. certainty. Certainty feels like pursed lips. and a straight ahead stare and trust feels like a lump in your throat and a heaven-word gaze.

Certainty feels so safe so known, so right, so comfortable. and trust feels like stretching. swelling, and expanding. my heart breaks open trusting lays my soul bare to God’s tutelage of how to love my transgender daughter. In the beginning it is painful and uncomfortable. Growth always is, but landing in God’s peaceful arms has made my voyage invaluable.

Meagan – Wow! I feel so privileged that you shared that with us today.

yeah, I’m just going to leave it at that. Nothing I could say could that that’s just really really well said. I’d much rather fall back in the arms of In the warmth of God’s trust, of trusting in God.  If if folks were to want to reach out to you with any questions, or

just just a follow up. what would be the easiest way for them to do so. Is it an email address or social media? Perhaps?

Becky – Yeah. Social media works. Great.

I’m I’m Becky Bellnap on Facebook, on Instagram. I’m

I’m my main name because Becky Bellap was taken. So I’m Becky Joe Swallow on Instagram. So yeah, I can. You can message me there

Meagan – Awesome. I will leave those in the show notes. I always thought you just loved swallows.

Becky – Great Instagram handle

Meagan – just for fun. I’d like to ask a few more whimsical questions at the very end, so our listeners can get to know a little bit

more about you. Tell us what your favorite book is, Becky.

Becky – Oh.

I’ve read all of Brene Brown’s books. I really love her. Books

Meagan – cannot go wrong with Bernie. Would you consider yourself an introvert or an extrovert?

Becky – You know I’m kind of right down the middle.

Meagan – I feel that. Yeah. And do you have a favorite artist?

Becky – Oh, I love. I love art. I really love Rose Day talk, doll.

Meagan – have

Becky – I love? Some of her religious paintings are

Meagan – are really meaningful to me. Yes, I’ve seen her work, too. She is amazing.

What about a night owl, or are you a morning lark?

Becky – I’m kind of both. I’m more of a night owl. But yeah, my life right now forces me to get up early. So

Meagan – right school.

and do you have a celebrity crush?

Becky – No, no.

Meagan – not required. Do you do still, or carbonated water or are you a diet soda fan?

Becky – I am a water drinker.

Meagan – and what about finally, the furthest place you have traveled? You did say y’all traveled a lot with your husband’s work in your earlier years of marriage.

Becky – Yeah. So I’ve been really far places. I we’ve lived in Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Russia, China.

so I haven’t ever measured how far is the farthest? But you know.

Meagan – Argentina, Brazil are way down there, and China and all those Asian countries are are way over there. So you lived in China, and you lived in Russia, and I did not know that about you.

We’ll have to talk. I would love to hear about your adventures. I’m sure you have. Lots of that’s fantastic.

I have visited. Well, Nope, just Russia. Haven’t been to the others yet. anyway. Wonderful. wonderful time. Lovely to be with you today. Really,

just needed to hear your words. I know I did today, and I and I know there are others out there who will

feel that healing balm that comes when they? Here’s such heartfelt. tender. real words spoken by someone such as yourself. So thank you for

for putting yourself out there.

Becky – Thank you for sharing, sharing us, sharing you with us.

Yeah, thanks for the invitation. Yeah.

Meagan – Let’s see here.