Episode 104: ‘I need you to love your kid’ with Jaymie Batten, High School Counselor

Meagan- Hey, everybody, thank you so much for joining me and my guest to day. Here on the band, the shadow of doubt. Podcast

I am. I am speechless. To have you get to know and to meet Jamie Batten. Jamie has a very special place in my heart. and you will understand more why, by the end of this interview.

and I am deeply, deeply grateful for your willingness to come on and chat with me today. So welcome, Jamie,

JAYMIE- thank you so much. I am. I am honored and thrilled to even be a small part. Of, your family’s journey! And so, of course, I want to

talk and share and hopefully learn and grow.

Meagan- That means so much more than words can really express.

Recently our family story was included. In a write up at the Lift and love website@liftonlove.org. So if you read that, you know a little bit more about the back story of

our my family. Our dynamics are are kind of past 4 and a half years, and Jamie, as the high school

counsellor, guidance counsellor.

  has been a huge

part of our journey.

and it’s such A beautiful story. It actually started before high school

and before. So before we dive into that and share a little bit more about that.

Would you just take a minute and introduce yourself to Our listeners just share a little bit about where you’re from, and your your family, your faith of origin, your all the things that kind of you know that you would like to share with us that make up Jamie.

JAYMIE- Well. that’s an interesting question, because there’s so many important people and factors and locations, and that but I guess I would say. I grew up in a very, very small, very, very conservative town.

In a very happy home. And we attended a Baptist Church funnily enough. My mom grew up Church of Christ, and when she married my dad, she chose to be baptized. So I remember when my mom was baptized as a child, which was really confusing, but kinda cool

and so we were heavily involved in our church. My dad was a Deacon my mom was one of the. It was called Ga’s in the Baptist Church, but it was like the girls group. My mom was always a sponsor. We went to church camp every summer. I was very involved in my youth group. I think solo’s at church. I was on the Praise team.

and I was, I mean, and still I am a believer of Christ. I don’t attend a Baptist church anymore, but I still believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and he died across and rose 3 days later, and I’ll never not believe that. But I will say in high school I felt the temptations like so many kids do, and made some bad choices.

And at that time our church leadership had used on the

team or whatever and when that became public knowledge that I had gone to party, you know, and and I was actually kicked off the leadership team at my church, so that I think, probably is when I kind of first started to go.

Oh, how old are you?

That was my senior year of high school, so probably 17 or so. I will say this, though, however, my parents, although we went to this

church and we lived in this tiny, tiny town.

my parents have always been more liberal in their beliefs, more understanding or empathetic. I have vivid memories of my mom talking about her best friend, Rusty. Who was a gay man in the seventies that contracted aids and died, and so I guess.

Well, my church home was very, very conservative, and I would say, judgmental not patient, not gracious. From time to time I was blessed to grow up in a home

that understood, I think, like.

if God is love, and God loves all people so calm down, you know what I mean.

So then I went to college and still attended church for sure. Read my Bible. Prayed worship. We got married. We decided to raise our kids in church as well, and we moved to the town I grew up in. And so we’ve kind of fell back into

patterns and went to that same church. And we’re raising our kids in that same church, and there were so many times that I would be sitting in a sermon and be like, please don’t assume everybody in this

congregation thinks that way. Votes that way, believes that way, treats people that way, whatever. And so I told my husband, like, we’ve got to find something different like this, is not it, because I don’t want my kids to have those same struggles I did, just with the

the judgment and the Shane. Yes, yeah. Like, so. in that time is when I got my job in Sunnyvale. So for a long time we were driving back and forth

with 2 kids in the car, and it was the whole thing. Yeah. And so we we found and are now members at a non Congregational church in the area. That, again, is not perfect. I still find myself going. That’s not how I interpret that. That’s not how I believe that. But it is. It’s important to me that my kids grow to love Christ, and I want them to understand Christ in the way that I do. They are both. They both have asked into their heart and have been baptized in a Baptist church just like I was just like their dad was

so that’s really cool to me. But again I want to show them the grace and patient and understanding side of Christianity that I think just gets lost so often.

So I don’t know. Did that answer your question.

MEAGAN- Oh, my goodness, yes. I’m just overcome with just so much love for you, and so much gratitude for who you are, and what a blessing you are to so many kids, not not just your own, but in your work. I love knowing a little bit more about your your backstory, your upbringing and

just your parents. And what legacy of of love that they passed on to you that you are not passing?

Jamie- Yeah, they’re they’re incredible. And my grandmother passed away this summer at the age of 97 years old, and she was incredible. She was my person, she was my hero, and she would often say things like.

You know, God just wants us to love all people, all people, and so she absolutely welcome to gay people into her home like II don’t know. I come from a legacy of people. I think that just get it and are continuing to grow and get it even more with the relationships I have with students and friends and

I don’t know. It’s I’m I’m certainly blessed to have grown up like that for sure

Meagan- you come from a line of trailblazers?

Jamie- Yeah, I do.

97, and and she gets it. It’s all about love.

Meagan- II have really really learned that and internalize that embodied that. For myself, you know as someone who

identifies as a Christian, it really is.

So much of this is all about the 2 great commandments.

JAYMIE- Yeah.

Meagan- And I think it’s still just so hard in the world to reconcile being a Christian, but also being an ally. And I just don’t understand why it’s so hard.

  you know. I appreciate you saying that that’s part of what I wanted to kind of dive in with with you about today.

I love one of my goals is normalizing faith journeys that everybody’s got their own.

and and even those who don’t maybe align with a faith or a higher power, or see God, that they still have their own journey, and I am all about

honoring it all. We are all human. we are all beautiful, worthy of love.

We were born that way. I believe there, there is divinity within each of us. and and yet I learned

in my in this journey. How I really wasn’t the Christian that I thought I was. You know. I thought I knew how to love. I thought I knew how to accept all and not judge. And

II had. I had quite a few lessons to learn and continue to learn them. And I’m okay with that I truly believe that’s been

a part of my journey that was that was needful and meant for me.  One of the things. however, that II really noticed at the beginning was, it was hard to lean into allowing a

a belief that didn’t really align with what my upbringing was that almost feels like you’re like turning your back on it, or something, or picking and choosing what parts you. It’s not something that is, it’s just not done. And I’m using quote marks. It’s not, or if it is, it’s not talked about. But one thing I’ve learned is

whether a person is aware of it or not. We all kind of kind of approach it cafeteria style, and by and by that I mean.

one aspect of your faith might really resonate with you, but for somebody else. It’s a pain point, like perhaps somebody who

didn’t get the opportunity to get married and is single for the remainder of their life and don’t get to experience having a family and

the joys, the the ups, the downs, the highs, the lows, the growth.

and also the certain it allows you to interact in your faith community in a different way than if you

do not have a spouse or children, or whatever. That’s just one example. And so I think our life experience just

certain things. We’re gonna we’re gonna feel differently about, just based solely on on our life, on who we are, what our experiences are, what

what we brought to the table when we arrived here. And So I you’ve already shared how you grew up in a home where your parents were.

Open-minded. or, in other words, loving of all how hard was that you you shared the experience you had at 17.

How hard was that to you were? You were not even of lead, legal age. and yet there was, we’ll call it, a disciplinary action.

What was that like to actually navigate that? And you’re meant actually telling them, you know what? This isn’t. Okay.

We’re gonna we’re gonna take our journey elsewhere.

JAYMIE- you know it was, you know, when I went back on that time of my life. Ii was always known kind of as the Goody 2 shoes, girl like

I didn’t like curse words. I didn’t like gossip. I didn’t like people making bad choices, and so what the people in my church congregation probably didn’t know is at that time. I had just gone through my first breakout.

You know. He broke up with me and went to college. They don’t know that I was suffering from eating disorder at the time. They don’t know the the things I was going through.

And so it was. I was kind of flipping about it like at whatever I just got kicked out of the church leadership group. Whatever I got kicked off when really it was very hurtful, and it was very hard to

even go to church really because for so long I guess I was. I was probably judgmental of people who made the choices that weren’t good to make I loved them

and made them feel welcome, but when they would come to church I’d be like.

I know what you did last night, you know. So then, to become a person that was making choices I wasn’t proud of of course. that was really hard, and it was really judgmental, but it was during that time when I started being rebellious, my parents knew something was up.

I was being very deceitful, of course, a teenager that was heartbroken.

  It’s that something my mom has told me my whole life is there is never.

ever anything you can do that will make me stop loving you. She said it all the time, and so it finally became like I didn’t necessarily share with her. How is feeling, or what I was going off to do. But she would say, just tell me you’re safe. Just tell me you’re safe, and when you’re ready to talk. Just know there’s nothing you could ever ever do to make me stop loving you so

with my parents. It was, I mean, I think they probably did disagree with that, and knowing my mother, she maybe even called the pastor and shared with them how upset she was by that! She’s not afraid to do that. But I think at the time it was just like whatever it slipping. And I think now that I work with high school students

I see like that was really crappy. That was a really hard time for me. But I think in the time I just didn’t have the capacity to realize, like I don’t know. My whole identity, I guess, had changed under the eyes of this congregation of people that watched me grow up.

Meagan- Yeah. And I mean, you were 17, right? And you weren’t fully developed literally, your cognitive abilities, your A, a emotionally, mentally, spiritually. You were still very much in a growth

face and  so I mean it makes sense to me. Then. after you felt very harshly judged, that. doesn’t it make sense that you would then do it with others around you. Right?

We do these things without even realizing it. and and a. and that. And when that’s kind of the environment that you’re in it. Just it kind of perpetuates itself. It

JAYMIE-  And I do wanna say, like. even in even in talking about that story. And and it, you know. It was a small blip in my story and journey. That church still embraced me, of course, and loved me, and there are dozens of people from that congregation. I could call right now, and they would be here in a heartbeat and have gotten me through some hard times for sure. So I wanna make it really clear like.

well, the those they’re really, still really great people. And it’s still a great place. It’s just hard.

It’s hard because church shouldn’t be where you feel judged whether whether it’s intentional or not. Does that make sense? It does, it absolutely does.

Meagan- And and yes, II hear you loud and clear. I think that’s why the what you said is really important. I think that’s why I wanted to create this podcast and have a place. This is a judgment, free zone. This is a zone. This is a place where I feel very strongly about

allowing my guests to share just honestly what their story is and where they’re at, where they’ve been and there’s a difference between

sharing it in in a factual way.  That’s really and truly, what happened to you? That was your experience versus

in in a pejorative or

Jaymie- yeah, I don’t want to be malicious.

Meagan- Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you’re not at all. You’re just sharing something. And and hopefully through through this sharing

right? We learn right? We get new information. We see a different perspective through someone else’s eyes. And so hopefully, we can internalize that. And then

it affects  us moving forward. And and my hope is always that other parents extended family members whatever, especially of those with teens and young adults.

learn something that might help them. Dan loves, love their people. and navigate hard times with a little bit.

So when you were now or then, you know. what did it? Can you share? What did it does a conversation, or did a conversation with your

parents or or even leaders sound like when

you had questions, when you had concerns, things that you weren’t sure about like about my face. Yeah, yeah.

that you just wanted to talk about. And you had one question.

Jaymie- Let me, okay, so that I can remember actually as a kid, a really a really

hard weird. I don’t know. I don’t know the right word to navigate. But I, as a kid, started thinking about how the Bible says that Jesus not going to come back until every nation, every tribe and everybody has been given the gospel of Jesus.

And I’m like, Okay. And so in my head. That’s gonna take a really, really really long time. But what if?

What if the missionary that’s supposed to tell them about Jesus goes somewhere, and they’ve believed about Mohammed their entire life. What if they don’t? What if they don’t take it in? Because I if I hadn’t been raised believing in Jesus, maybe I would fall

for that or it, and it was so hard for me to reconcile that I would say. Mom, do you think Jesus could like also be like Mohammed.

and like he’s all the same person and like, if everybody just believes like, Yes, mom, I’m I’m not saying Jesus is not God’s only sign. But but maybe his son has look different. I don’t know, mom, I don’t know, and she would always navigate it, like, you know, those are some big questions. And when we see God, we’re gonna have to ask him those questions, because

and even now I’m I almost feel guilty saying that because it’s so ingrained in me, and I do believe Jesus is my Savior, and I love Him.

But it’s still that those certain aspects are just like what what so I don’t know. I mean, my parents are just like, I said, just open and willing to admit I don’t know.

and willing to say.

Meagan- I’ve kind of wondered. That same thing.

Jaymie- you know, instead of just like blindly.

don’t say that out loud. They’re gonna take away your salvation like

I

Meagan- oh, my goodness, that is.

they get 5 gold stars in my book. Maybe right? Because that’s not something many.

Well, necessarily do just admit that I don’t know.

Jaymie- Yeah, I’m not really sure.

Meagan- Yeah. But she she saw you. She validated. Wow! Those are some big questions. and that

without you don’t need it right there. I mean what a beautiful connection that you made as parent and child

think about the trust that was I mean it was already there. It was established. But think about how much it it deepened and those roots grew.

and you knew that that was always a safe place. yeah. And and just for the record. I totally get what you’re saying about that specific question.

  I think. Episode 40 and 41. My my guest who I interviewed is an anthropologist.

Ph. D. Student. And we talked about Liz Thomas. We talked about social constructs.

and so I thought of that as you were speaking like there Mohammed

might be who we understand to be Christ. She she compared a social construct to Castle yeah, a castle, right?

We have a place where we live, and maybe we call it a castle. They have a place, maybe they call it a castle or something else, but it’s all based on

what you what your reference points are. And it’s only been in the past couple decades, decades, really, that

we have more information about people worldwide because of the Internet. And so. Yes, that’s a perfectly legitimate question that you asked in your youth.

And doesn’t it make sense that God is mindful of all of his, their children, no matter what part of the world.

And they’re going to understand concepts. They might have a different vocabulary for them. Right? But yeah, such a fascinating, awesome question so much. You’re you’re a deep and free thinker you have been. I can tell

pretty curious about lots of things very concerned about other people like.

Oh, my gosh, we have to go be missionaries like. And I. And I think that’s yeah, I think.

Well, anyway, this isn’t about contemplating. But I really do think love is a big part of that message. I agree. I believe love is a big part of

sharing that divine love that is greater than us all. And that’s in some cases how people get introduced to a

the concept of a a greater power, higher power.  So I wanna shift a little. So so, knowing a little bit more about who who you are. And Jamie, it makes perfect sentence.

  in retrospect. When I look about key points

in in my journey, in my kiddo’s journey. and then by extension, my family’s journey starting in 2019.

If for those listening, if you’ve read my story, and if you haven’t, I I encourage you too. That’s a story that’s not easy to share.

And so I’m glad it’s in writing, and that I don’t have to say it again, because I cried a lot through that interview.

But at 1 point I talk about or or the the article shares how my kiddo was called to the office, and at this point it was still middle school. It wasn’t high school

and it was because of some very problematic texts that expressed self harm and

So that particular day the counselor of the middle school was out.

I believe, at a conference and so when I went to the school.

you were there.

Jaymie- I was, I remember, that day so well.

Meagan- Do you mind sharing a little bit like what that. What happened in in what? Your view?

Jaymie- I certainly want to continue to respect Aj’s things he shared with me that day.

MEAGAN- Oh, yes, absolutely yes.

Jaymie- but the gist of it was, I’m I’m struggling with my sexuality, and my parents are Mormons and really conservative, and they’re never going to understand this. This is like the biggest sin, like I can’t.

They can’t know that part, Miss Batten, when you call them. You can tell them I’m cutting. You can tell them that I may even want to kill myself like, but you can’t tell them that part.

And so I just looked at him, and I said, Here’s the deal. I love people.

I love people that like boys, girls both, neither purple people. I don’t care.

Love is love, and you need to know with me. Oh, there’s love, and that’s it. and don’t worry about it. And so those conversations when the parent finally gets there, and it’s it’s the hardest part of my job. Of course.

it’s so hard to navigate that conversation, because most of the time the parents are completely blindsided. They always know something’s going on with their kid. They don’t know what it is.

And so in that moment, not being in my own office, not being with a student I knew from day to day. Like for for him to be able to share that with me.

Like who am I? It was clear he just needed some in the fact that he trust me at that all those years ago it was just

I don’t know, so I do believe that  God had his hand in that, obviously, for sure. But I do remember

y’all leaving, and y’all feeling so frantic and ill equipped about like what? What do we do? What do? What do we do?

And unfortunately, this is the silk box that I’ll never get off of

access to mental health care in Texas is a freaking joke. So even when parents are willing and say, Okay, we need to do something. II don’t necessarily have great resources to offer, and I’m trying to give resources to someone who’s literally a life coach therapist lady like I don’t know. And so I you know

it’s so. II do remember just being  heartbroken, because obviously he needed to share that news with you all. But I didn’t know when it would come out.

you know, in a yeah.

Meagan- so I guess II didn’t mention that your assignment is at the high school, and so, because the counselor was out for the day, you received the call to come over to the middle school.

And yeah, I didn’t. I didn’t know all those details, but I knew enough to know my kid was hurting.

Jaymie- Yeah.

Meagan- and I knew enough to know An intervention was needed. And I’m I’m open about supporting

you know.I am open about. Everybody has mental health. just like we all have physical health. and you know. So I have had the same therapist for quite some time, and luckily I was able to

share her with my kiddo pretty quickly. and that was a blessing. That was a godsend, I know that.

And then, 3 weeks later is when the pandemic hit. So think God that it was you who was the one.

and who was able to share all of those things. so that my kiddo knew there was a safe space in Mrs. Batten.

because that’s not always the case,  and I am sorry or sad to to say, and in

in Texas, when it comes to the queer community and you just cannot put a value, a measurable value on knowing that

as a parent you have somebody that is watching out for your kiddo.

Jaymie- Yeah.

Meagan- And who loves them unconditionally. And who can? You know I didn’t know if you use the word ally to describe yourself. But I knew you loved my kid.

Jaymie- and I would say, too, like that is, that’s another part of my journey that I would always admit, like, I’m pretty ignorant about some things, just because I haven’t

experience them first hand, necessarily, and so I’ll just straight up. Tell a kid like if I’m saying the wrong thing, or if I use the wrong pronoun like, please correct me because I’m learning, and I certainly will never begin to understand what it feels like to be a trans student ever.

especially in a small town, especially in a conservative small town from a religious family like. I’ll never begin to understand that.

and I’m sure I could be doing more things to be even more of an ally. But it’s I’m just growing. Because again, like

II guess it’s just confusing to me. Because why should I care who you’re attracted to or who you’re eventually gonna have sex with. Why do I care? It’s not a business I love you, you know, so I don’t know it. It feels like a no brainer to me. But

I don’t know. Not everybody sees the world that way. The way I do, I suppose.

Meagan- Yeah, actually, what you say is.

is the reality of it. Why why do?

Why should we care? Why do we care? And II just learned it. So much of it goes back to the stories that we’ve written about ourselves, that we don’t even realize that we’ve written about ourselves, that come from

our families, our upbringing.

our communities, our cultures, our religions, our faiths.

And each one of those sources creates a story for us. And so. yeah. you wrote your story, and we continue to. And I think what

some people don’t necessarily realize. I mean, I don’t think I necessarily realize this. We can. We can erase and and like rewrite certain parts if we want to

that, doesn’t. That’s not the same as we can’t go back and change the past. But we can

take a look at our

current stories that we have and edit them and erase what

no longer aligned with us.

based on maybe new information that we have, that we’ve introduced into our world a a new experience.

Jaymie- Right?

Meagan-  yeah, and that’s actually a really beautiful thing. And I think what holds folks can hold folks back from that is fear. I really think that’s what  is the driving emotion particularly

Jaymie- completely. And I would say, even making decision. To even join you here was difficult for me, not because I don’t care and love people, and not that I care. People know that.

So if I want people to know that, so what does that do in my position. That’s pretty public is, and that’s the sad part. But that is fear, that’s that’s fear.

Meagan- But but at the same time that’s

that’s a real concern for you. As a person in a public

school system. Laws of our State pretty much require you to report any

any student that you’re aware of who is

going through any type of transition as

child abuse, but report the parent for child abuse. So I

that is a fear that is not unfounded. That is a very real fear.

And that’s why it means so much to me that you’re here.

Jaymie- Yeah. Well, and you know.

through the years as a counselor. I would say, my students have also shaped my faith and my understanding of things. Before. Here I was at a middle school.

And I would have kids share things with me that they were very ashamed of.

I don’t know, especially with the sexuality topic. I think the first few times I dealt with that, even though I knew that I love the kids, I wanted to navigate that the correct way.

But as I’ve grown and had more experiences with students and families.

I think it just I don’t. What am I trying to say? They, my students, have helped me grow to better navigate each situation, all. They’re all different. But hopefully the message is the same as

I need you to love your kid. no matter what they need. They need that whatever it looks like, and it’s scary exactly.

Meagan- And even though those stories are different, the one common like

through and through the one common factor is love, and I really and truly believe you cannot make

a mistake. If your heart, I mean you, are genuinely the best, doing the best. You know how.

with the information that you have.

Jaymie- My mom says that all the time we do the best we can with the information we have. She says that all the time, and it’s so true. I’m probably a much better mom today than I was 3 years ago than I was 6 years whatever. Well, duh, we do the best we can. And II tell students that to your parents, really genuinely, are probably doing the best they can. They don’t know how. They don’t know how to talk to you about this stuff. They love you, you know.

Meagan- and it is, I mean, that’s why you can do as a human great. And I and I genuinely think that most parents are doing the best that they know how, with what information they have at the time. And I’ve thought about this a lot.

Just in general. If you look at our society and we’re we’re in the United States. I know other

countries. Listen to this, podcast but and I’ve had a few others who live out of our country come on the podcast so I can really only speak

to the United States. But as a culture. I mean historically, we don’t talk about sex or sexuality, or anything related to that topic, at least

in an open way well and honestly. in a less open way. Some some homes don’t really address or talk much about it because of how the story that’s been painted around it over time, right?

Jaymie- And II think yes, I think you’re hitting it on the head. I think if it’s talked about, it’s talked about in a way that is shame driven outside of marriage.

and so in in that

for your for as a kid to grow up and have normal hormonal feelings right, but be attracted to people

and want to kiss them, or whatever shame after. And I’m not saying like that. It’s right, or whatever like teenagers. Good Lord! That’s the last thing they need in their lives.

But it it makes me sad that my first experiences with sex were shame driven rather than out of love. Because. yeah, to be cool thing.  so that’s something I haven’t. I haven’t parented a teenager yet parented in a way to communicate about that topic in a different way. Even my own kids are like, just so, not bothered. They’ve got a couple of students in their classes that have like 2 dads or 2 moms, or you know, there’ll be like a same sex couple or whatever on a commercial. And they’re just like so not bothered because it’s just not a thing in our house like whatever. But I know, like, when that movie was it the buzz light your movie came out. There was like one scene of 2 female lovers like embracing. I’m gonna think the kids

the world was fine and like

Do why do you care? And if your parents such things in front of your children.

Yeah, maybe they could see the world through the eyes that make sense. I don’t know. Anyways,

Meagan- it’s it’s so true. We do pass on

our lenses. Through which. But I think that’s where, knowing that we are

the writers of our story, and if we want or see a need to to edit parts of it.

It doesn’t need to to mean that whoever you got that story from is a bad person or that

anything went wrong. It just means you’re learning. You’re understanding things differently. And you can see.

perhaps, a higher better way of living life. You know.

admittedly if I’m if I’m just being honest. I am sure there are conversations I would not have had.

or reading and research. I may not have done without this journey as a parent of an Lgbtq plus kiddo, and particularly

one who identifies as as transgender. You know. Take that

that I the idea we just talked about that we don’t really, as a society talk about sex, it’s an uncomfortable topic it’s for. For, especially in a faith based community right?

And then add to it the topic of something that has traditionally been taught as wrong or bad.

  that’s really really uncomfortable. Those are conversations most aren’t going to try to just feel the discomfort that comes with that.

or feel the uneasiness especially when it’s connected to a person’s level of worth or goodness or level of spirituality, and so on. When it’s connected with that. It’s just.

And that’s why I feel so strongly about normalizing questions and doubts on a faith journey.

It took me a while to lean into this idea of just finding out information.

and I and I now have learned and spoke with families whose whose children, even though they were born with female parts.

they have an X and a Y chromosome. These these situations exist, and if there’s anything the gospel of Jesus Christ has taught me is he went after the one like the one mattered to him. So while percentage wise.

this community makes up a very small percentage. There’s still a lot of people who identify this way.

They matter. they matter. And and the only reason why their stories might be less heard or less understood or less talked about, is because the dominant voices over time tend to be

a certain demographic.

Jaymie- Yeah, right?

Meagan- Certain gender, certain color of skin, certain, perhaps educational background certain.

maybe Judeo-christian background it. I I’m just throwing out potential. Yeah, exactly. I mean.

I didn’t start to see things

quite as differently as as I do. You know, going back to that piece about

you as a counselor would have to report a parent if you learned that they were allowing transition

to happen for their child, meaning a physical transition. Not, I don’t think necessarily social social means name pronouns, clothing.

But I in in discussions I’ve had, you know. Nobody makes a big deal about

women who choose to have an adjustment in their breasts, whether that’s a reduction which some do

for back pain reasons, perhaps or an augmentation, for whatever reason or some get it done for medical reasons. Having to do with maybe cancer, or they’re at risk for having cancer. And so it’s a pro proactive, maybe preventative measure.

same thing with other adjustments cosmetic adjustments that are made to to faces. You get the picture. and

the main difference here is one is normalized because it’s falls under the umbrella. That’s maybe more predominant hetero versus over here. It has to do with

same sex or various, you know, intersex or transgender.

Jaymie- And the reality is, it’s we are not in charge of another person’s life. Right? I don’t care. Do it, don’t do it. Who are you? What you like? Who, huh? I don’t care, because

now I will say should I have to go on a similar journey, or like you have? Maybe my opinion of this would change a little bit. Maybe it would at least be more personal, and maybe I would care to an extent.

I’m not saying that I would navigate that beautifully, but if I’m just talking about random

student, random man passing in in the Mall like it doesn’t affect me and my day to day basis like I don’t. I don’t care.

Meagan- And II appreciate you saying that, Jamie, and that’s fair. and that’s okay, because you’re allowed

to to live your life right just as hopefully.

Everybody else’s as well. That’s not always the case. And I think that’s why I feel strongly about just bringing stories of different experiences and different lived realities into a more mainstream

availability. And so thank you for saying that. Because as a parent.

yeah, that’s your that’s part of your role as being parent.

JAYMIE-  yeah.

Meagan- there’s no, there’s no easy answers. And I would add to that there’s no, definitive answers, I think it’s something that

is personal

Jaymie- well, and I was about to say. I think, the way that you have navigated your faith journey, but also your parenting journey through what has probably been the hardest season. Most questions.

most questions about faith and parent, all of the things from the outside. You have navigated this in a way that is so inspiring to me, because I do have more and more students and more and more parents reaching out, going like

help. And so I know probably what happened in your house over the course of what 4 years has been

really hard behind closed doors, and I’m sure it took you so long to get to this point. I remember, I remember the day we met about Aj’s pronoun.

yeah, and that even that was, I think it probably took a lot for you to get to the point to respect that at home but also be willing to mention it outside of your home.

Meagan- It’s true.

Jaymie- and then, furthermore, not just to have Miss Batten, who has been along this journey, know this information.

but to have the teachers and the staff like I just I can’t imagine what that meant to Aj for her mom to go his mom. Excuse me to go.

You know what I love you so much. unconditionally. completely.

And it’s really inspiring to see. and I know that it is. It wasn’t just like a switch.

Meagan- No, it’s it’s a journey for sure. that is true. I   that was post covid, and it was his first year back.

Jaymie- after being at home for? Well, yeah. And when he returned right when he returned, after virtual learning. He he was stressing differently. It looked different, you know. And

so even his. I

Meagan- yeah.

Jaymie- I just can’t imagine walking in the school the first day after not seeing these people for so long and being like

Meagan- it wasn’t easy. Yeah, you’re right.

I think. that initial meeting in eighth grade helped it tremendously. Knowing that you were.

I just I just decided to trust. And knowing how much you had helped us up to that point.

yeah, it wasn’t easy. I appreciate you speaking to that.

But the love of a parent, the love of a mother or father or parent is it? Run steep, and it runs wide

and

and sometimes that that means

advocating for our kids.

even when we don’t understand it fully, because we haven’t experienced it.

you know. I always like to say it doesn’t have to happen to me for it to matter to me

Jaymie- absolutely.

Meagan- And it. It helps when you have safe spaces to go to.

Jaymie- That is true.

Meagan- I appreciate. Yeah, I appreciated so much your support in making that request of.

Please use these pronouns, and please refer to our kiddo as this, and

and you also helped

us get a faster track to graduation, which also significantly aided our journey.

Jaymie- I had a parent ask about graduating in less than 3 years.

and I said, That’s why, you know, I said to one of my administrators, I said I had to tell Aj. Skidmore he could not graduate in less than 3 years. So if this happens, it is over my dead body, because candidate, and I had to tell him. No.

that literally was probably I don’t even know. 3 weeks ago I had that conversation.

Meagan-  I thank you so much for your time, and I know that you are busy, and time is so precious and valuable. I just

oops. I just have one last question I like to ask. and that is, what does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt?

Jaymie- Requires a whole bunch of trust, doesn’t it? Trust

asking questions, being one to listen. Admit you don’t know everything. and just

absolutely, that’s so. True. Trust over fear. Yeah, which is hard.

Meagan- I love that. So string of questions. One word answers, that’s all I’m looking for. So our guests, our our listeners, can know you a little bit more. What is your favorite book.

Jaymie-  Oh, gosh! I wish you hadn’t asked me this strange oh, my gosh! It’s about the homeless man. It’s a real live story in Dallas.

stranger than me. Oh, my gosh, I’m gonna have to Google it and get back with you because it’s the greatest.

Meagan- Okay, are you an introvert or an extrovert

Jaymie- extrovert. All day long

Meagan- I could I could have guessed that. What’s who’s your favorite artist?

Jaymie- John Mayer.  And are you lyrics?

Ask me that question again. I got my answering,

Meagan- okay, your favorite book.

Jaymie- same kind of different as me.

Meagan- Oh, I love that. Okay. Are you a night owl or a morning lark.

Jaymie- Not now.

Meagan- And do you have a celebrity crush?

Jaymie- Yes, Jimmy Fallon, he’s hilarious,

Meagan- he is. and you do still are carbonated water. I need some water or diet soda.

Jaymie- Oh, diet, Coke! For sure I should drink more water than I do.

Meagan- Awesome! And then, lastly. the furthest place you’ve travelled

Jaymie- for this place. Dominican Republic.

Jamaica. Whichever one of those is furthest.

Meagan- Yeah. Fun.

Jaymie- Yeah.

Meagan- So what would be the best way if folks had questions for you to reach out to you. Would it be on social media? Would it be an email?

Jaymie- Yeah, you could do my social media? It’s at Jamie. Batten. That’s on Instagram.

Meagan- Okay, I will put that in the show notes.

Jaymie- Okay.

Meagan- thank you. You are amazing. We’re so blessed to have you in Sunnyvale. Our family, personally, was blessed by you, and I feel so so grateful that you came on and talked to me today

Jaymie- absolutely. It was a pleasure.