Episode 58: A Universal Faith: Including our trans loved ones, with Mell Fraze Part 2

Meagan:
One thing that’s really helped me wrap my brain around the concept of gender is using the idea of masculine energy versus feminine energy. We all have both. Some of us may lean more toward one than the other, and that’s completely fine. A person might be drawn to things that society labels “masculine” or “feminine” — but that doesn’t have to mean anything about who they are.

Guest:
Right. And the thing I think people often get stuck on is thinking it’s static — that gender or sexuality don’t change. As humans, we want neat categories, but the truth is that gender and sexuality are fluid.

Even people who identify as cisgender and heterosexual, if they’re truly introspective, will notice some degree of fluctuation over their lifetime. That can be for many reasons — physical conditions, illness, pregnancy, infertility, or other life experiences. Some people simply exist in a broader range along this artificial binary we’ve created.

Meagan:
Yeah.

Guest:
For my own child, the lightbulb moment came when puberty began. Their discomfort wasn’t so much with their body in a physical sense — not the classic “body doesn’t match my identity” dysphoria people often think of.

Their struggle was more social dysphoria. It was the construct of “your body looks this way, therefore you must be this” that caused pain. Having someone assume their identity based on their body or clothes, and then treating them accordingly, was traumatizing.

This is especially difficult in church systems that focus so heavily on the gender binary — “this is man, this is woman.”

Meagan:
Most parents want to connect with their kids. They want trust, safety, open conversation. But with transgender and non-binary kids, those preconceived notions — and the fear or discomfort they trigger — can get in the way.

I define a safe space as one where a child can be their true authentic self and express it. What tips would you share with parents for creating safe spaces, even when uncomfortable feelings come up?

Guest:
I think everyone can relate to sharing their truth — something painful or deeply personal — and then having it invalidated. “It wasn’t that bad.” “You seem fine.” Whatever form it takes, invalidation hurts.

If we’ve all experienced that, we know our kids have too. It takes self-discipline to pause and resist our knee-jerk reactions — dismissing, explaining, or rationalizing — and instead say, “This is their truth.”

Meagan:
Yes. That’s exactly what I help clients with. It’s not a “kid problem” — it’s about us as parents doing our own work to respond instead of react.

Guest:
It’s hard work. The only reason I could hold space for my child was because I’d already spent years learning to do it — moderating groups centered on marginalized voices, parenting neurodivergent kids with different sensory needs.

I had to learn that even if I don’t find a sound overwhelming, my child might. Even if I hate a texture, my child might love it. Those experiences of “otherness” prepared me to hold space for my child’s gender journey too.

Meagan:
Neurodivergence and LGBTQ+ identity do overlap a lot — two communities that are often misunderstood.

Guest:
Exactly. For me, being a parent of queer kids and a neurodivergent family gave me a kind of privilege. I’d already done the internal work to see that my truth isn’t the only truth, that a faith community’s way isn’t the only way.

So when it came to my child, I could say, “I am absolutely going to hold space for someone else’s truth.”

Meagan:
Your willingness to do that makes you a safe person for other parents and kids too. Everyone’s journey is different, but all are still loved and seen by the Divine.

Guest:
Yes. But the stumbling block for many religious communities is that they teach “our way is the right way — the only way to be happy or saved.” That rigidity creates an in-group/out-group dynamic. And as humans, our nervous systems have evolved to see the in-group as safe and the out-group as dangerous.

Breaking out of that takes intentional work.

Meagan:
Exactly. That’s why I feel so strongly about nonjudgmental, open spaces. Doubt and questioning have been treated as shameful, but my hope with this podcast is to show that leaning into questions can help us live beyond the shadow of doubt.

So let’s wrap up with the question I ask all my guests: What does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt?

Guest:
For me, it’s about authenticity. I can’t control how other people see me. But if I live authentically and let go of fear about being vulnerable, other people recognize me as a safe person too. That builds bridges.

Those who can’t handle it may fall away — and that’s where healthy boundaries come in. I’m not going to let someone else’s fear or shame cost me my authenticity or my children’s well-being.

Meagan:
I love that. Letting go of fear and living authentically. Thank you so much for sharing your story today.

🔑 Topics Discussed

• Masculine and feminine energy vs. societal constructs

• Fluidity of gender and sexuality across a lifetime

• Physical vs. social dysphoria in transgender and non-binary youth

• How fear and invalidation block connection between parent and child

• Concrete ways to create safe spaces for kids

• In-group/out-group dynamics in religious communities

• Living authentically and holding healthy boundaries

🌱 Potential Takeaways

• Gender and sexuality are fluid, not static.

• Focus on creating safe spaces by pausing before reacting.

• Recognize your own fear and biases; do your own inner work.

• Authenticity invites others to be authentic too.

• Doubt isn’t dangerous — it’s an invitation to grow and expand.