Episode 56: Joy is the messy with Jill Pack, the coach for all seasons

Meagan:
Hey everyone, welcome to Beyond the Shadow of Doubt. I’m your host, Meagan Skidmore, and I’m so pleased to have life coach, Jill Pack with me today.
Jill and I met through Heather Ham’s LDS Life Coach Directory, and she graciously agreed to come on and share about her faith journey.

If you’ve listened before, you know that one of my main goals for this podcast is to normalize that questions and doubts are a natural part of a faith journey—and really, of life itself. Having doubts doesn’t mean anything’s wrong with you. It’s simply part of being human.

Thank you, Jill, for joining me today and being willing to share. Let’s start with you—tell us about yourself.

Jill:
I’m so glad to be here! I’m a life coach who helps women—mostly women of faith—and young adults who are navigating new seasons of life. I guide them through those changes that can throw us off balance and help them reconnect with who they are.

I was born and raised in Salt Lake City as one of three girls. My dad had children from a previous marriage, but my two sisters—who were much older—were the ones I grew up closest to. In many ways, I had the experience of being both a younger sibling and an only child.

I grew up LDS and had a great childhood. I loved my church community and my neighborhood. Then I went to Utah State for college, and that was where my faith journey really began.

Meagan:
In what way?

Jill:
Well, when I moved away, I didn’t “leave the church” in the sense people talk about today—it just wasn’t my focus. I got caught up in college life and fun, and my faith became less central for a while.

At 22, I found myself unmarried and pregnant. That was an incredibly heavy time. I was dating the man who would later become my husband, but when I told him, he panicked and backed out two weeks before our planned wedding.

It was dark. But a few weeks before our son was born, he came back and said, “I’m ready.” We married, and two weeks later, our son was born. We’ve now been married over 30 years.

It hasn’t always been easy, but we’ve built a strong life together. Still, I carried a lot of shame for years. I constantly revisited that time, thinking I’d “messed up.” One day, my husband said, “I’m so grateful things happened the way they did. I don’t know where I’d be otherwise.” That was eye-opening. It showed me that two people can experience the same event completely differently.

Meagan:
Parts of your story fall “outside the LDS norm,” so to speak. How did you come to a place where you could speak about it openly and without shame?

Jill:
Honestly, I didn’t talk about it for a long time. I’ve only started sharing in recent years as I’ve gained more compassion—for myself and for others. Having adult children now has expanded my perspective.

When my kids started forming their own faith journeys, it cracked me open even more. I realized that everyone’s experience is divinely designed. We’re not here to be perfect; we’re here to progress.

Meagan:
You mentioned earlier that your kids’ journeys have helped you grow. How do you navigate their faith questions and choices as their parent?

Jill:
At first, I resisted. I thought my role was to teach them my way—to give them my understanding so they wouldn’t make my mistakes.

But resistance only created frustration and distance. Coaching helped me see that I can’t control someone else’s spiritual path. I began replacing frustration with curiosity.

When I catch myself thinking, “Why would they say that?” or “Why would they do that?” I pause and say, “That’s interesting.” That phrase alone shifts me from judgment to curiosity. It opens space for love and compassion instead of fear and control.

Now, we have mutual respect. We might not always talk about faith directly, but there’s peace and understanding between us.

Meagan:
That’s powerful. I love how curiosity can soften resistance. You also mentioned that when you returned to church activity, it felt natural—peaceful. Yet you still have questions. Would you share some of those?

Jill:
Sure. I’ve wrestled with questions about church history, polygamy, and scriptural stories like Noah’s Ark. I don’t have all the answers—and that’s ok.

I’ve learned to “set things on the shelf.” That doesn’t mean ignoring them; it means acknowledging that I don’t know yet, and that’s fine. I focus instead on the fruits:
Does this help me feel closer to God?
Does it help me love and serve others?
If the answer is yes, that’s where I stay.

Meagan:
That’s such a healthy approach. I also love your insight about authenticity within faith communities. Can you share your experience with creating—or not having—space for authentic discussion?

Jill:
Yes. About 20 years ago, some friends in my ward began voicing questions that challenged the norm. I was on the “faithful” side back then, and I saw them as wrong. It created tension and damaged friendships.

One day, I was sitting in sacrament meeting, and this overwhelming feeling came over me: “Jill, you need to apologize.”

I went to my friend, told her I was sorry, and we both cried. That moment taught me so much about humility. Since then, I’ve realized that resisting someone’s doubts disconnects us, while allowing them draws us closer.

Meagan:
That’s exactly why I started this podcast—to create a space where it’s safe to question, to doubt, and to grow.

Jill:
Yes. I think fear is what drives disconnection—fear of what doubts mean or where they might lead. But if we can move past that fear, we can actually build deeper faith and relationships.

Meagan:
Absolutely. So tell us about your coaching work—how do these themes show up with your clients?

Jill:
I work with women of faith, especially in midlife. Many are navigating transitions—children leaving home, shifting identities, or faith questions of their own.

I teach that joy is found in the messy middle. True joy doesn’t come from perfection—it comes from embracing the full spectrum of experience. We need opposition in all things to appreciate life’s richness.

And many of my clients struggle to love themselves. I teach that self-love isn’t prideful; it’s the foundation of every healthy relationship.

Meagan:
That’s beautiful. Before we close, I ask every guest the same question: What does it mean to you to live beyond the shadow of doubt?

Jill:
To me, it means not doubting yourself.
God never doubts us. If our heavenly parents didn’t believe in us, we wouldn’t be here.

It’s not about perfection—it’s about trusting your divine potential.
When we stop doubting ourselves, there’s nothing we can’t do.

Meagan:
That’s such a powerful reminder. Thank you, Jill.

Jill:
Thank you, Meagan. It’s been such a joy to talk with you.

🔑 Topics Discussed

• Navigating faith transitions and doubt

• Shame, self-acceptance, and reframing the past

• Parenting adult children through spiritual growth

• Replacing frustration with curiosity

• Creating space for authentic faith conversations

• Coaching women through midlife transitions

• Finding joy and divine purpose in life’s “messy middle”

🌱 Potential Takeaways

• Normalize questions and doubts as part of faith.

• Approach others’ faith journeys with curiosity, not resistance.

• Focus on what brings peace and connection with God.

• Let go of shame and perfectionism; embrace the messy and the real.

• Remember: God never doubts you.