Episode 23: Coming full circle: a chat with Tina Gosney

Speaker 1

Hey everybody. Welcome to the Beyond The Shadow Of Doubt Podcast. I am thrilled today to have a fellow coach and dear friend Tina Gosney with me. So welcome. So glad to have you.

Speaker 2

Thanks Megan. I am. Thanks for asking me to be here. I appreciate you.

Speaker 1

Here’s a fun fact. shortly after I certified shortly like four or five months, Tina’s podcast was the very first podcast interview that I ever did. So this is super fun. This is full circle for me.

Speaker 2, Speaker 1

Yes, you were the first one I couldn’t tell it was your first podcast interview.

Speaker 1

Oh, yeah, I was nervous.

Speaker 2, Speaker 1

That means you did a good job if I couldn’t tell.

Speaker 1

Well, thanks and you can hear that on her podcast and I’ll leave a link to that in the show notes. Actually, that would be kind of fun.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that was a good episode.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it was, so take a minute please and introduce yourself to my list. Our listeners, tell us your, a little bit about you, your origin story about your family, your likes and dislikes. Sure hobbies.

Speaker 2

Well, I am my husband and I have been married for this year will be 33 years. That number just sounds crazy like that. You know, when you’re younger you just think I’m never gonna be old enough to be married for that many years. Ok. That’s where I am right now. So I feel like I’ve made it and it’s just a little bit crazy still to think about it. We have four kids.

They’re all adults. Our youngest is 21 our oldest is 30. We have three girls and a boy. And I live in Idaho and I would say my, I’m a member of the L DS church. And my journey to coaching really came through some difficult experiences that we had in our family and just me trying to figure them out and finding coaching and really, really finding some peace and some a direction to go that helped me to figure things out in my own life, figure myself out, show up better in my, my marriage and in

my family. But mostly my relationship with me is what I have figured out was lacking and I didn’t even know it until, until some things were shining a really big bright flashlight on it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that resonates for sure. You’re in a much better place to navigate, cultivate, improve relationships with others. If the first relationship with yourself is, is secure, you’re aware of it. You know how to connect with yourself, all those things and yeah, coaching, taughtt me that as well, for sure.

Speaker 2

And I think if we don’t have that really strong foundation in ourself, this and this is what we see and this is what I was doing. But it’s also what I, I coach a lot of people on the same thing is that we’re constantly looking to other people in our lives to give us our sense of value and us and measuring ourselves according to what we see our reflection from other people or achievements.

and let those define us, but those are always moving targets and it feels like you’re on a roller coaster. And that’s exactly how I felt for so many years. Like I was on a roller coaster and I was, I just was incapable of getting off or turning the, you know, pushing the power button somehow to make it stop.

Speaker 1

It’s, it’s a very powerless way to navigate life. It’s, and you don’t, and often you don’t even realize it at the time because it feels like you don’t have that power, right?

Speaker 2, Speaker 1

You’re not aware, right?

Speaker 2

And I don’t even think that we’re aware that we have the ability to get off and it lies within ourselves.

Speaker 1

Yes, you are. So right. So when I met you and I was on your podcast, it was a different kind of niche, a different target. It was called Parenting through the Detour. And you have evolved and grown since then to coaching your family relationships. And, I love that. Can you share a little bit more about that, about the evolution, whatever you want to share about how you’re? Yeah.

Speaker 2

Ok. Well, I was doing parenting through the detour a lot of my work that I did on myself at the beginning and, well, I wouldn’t say that’s not any different now. It’s, it’s my finding my own value without relying on my Children to provide that for me. And we get so enmeshed with our kids. So codependent on them doing or being certain ways or having a certain relationship with them to look at ourselves then.

And I think this is really more of a female mother thing than it is a father, male thing generally that we find so much of our own worth and value in our Children, which is that powerless place that I was. But by doing that, I put a lot of pressure on those relationships with my kids and I put a lot of pressure on them to be a certain way that was not kind of me.

And it wasn’t a, I was not wanting them to express their authentic self. in order for me to feel good about myself. Right? And so that’s really was the reason I started and kind of fell into coaching in the first place. But then I was thinking, well, I want to help other parents release also, you know, that need for their Children to provide that worth for them.

And as I got into it, I was, I started coaching people and talking to people and see that it’s not just what we do in, in parent and child relationships, but that we struggle in all family relationships. We look to each other, whether it’s a spouse, a sibling, a mother-in-law, a parents, your Children too. But we just have a really hard time getting along with our families.

I really came to start focusing on L DS parents that have a family member that’s struggling with their faith may be leaving the church and usually that’s their Children is the ones that I end up talking to. Although it’s not exclusively there, there’s a lot of pain in our church right now with family members questioning leaving, it feels so threatening, it feels so dangerous to have our family members go there, our kids or our spouse, right?

And in, as in through that pain, we start acting in crazy ways because we get afraid and fear just kind of takes over and gets in the driver’s seat and takes us to crazy places and we do things that are not healthy for those relationships. And I just want to help people who are struggling to find some peace as their family members are struggling with their faith in the church.

Speaker 1

Yeah. That’s, that’s awesome. So essentially your, your niche, your focus has evolved even a little bit more. And we can get to that in a minute. I want to ask you. OK, this came up several times, this idea that we look externally for validation, right? And part of that is the relationships with our Children and you’ve even broadened out, you know, relationships with other family members, siblings, parents, whomever.

Right. Right. In your work. Tina, like why, why do you think that is like, how has that shown up for you in your clients, for your clients? Like where do you think that need to, to define oneself or what is, you know, is that making sense?

Speaker 2

I think so. So let me give you an answer and you can tell me if I’m right from what the, the idea that you had in your brain. I think that no one taught us how to do this. I think we’re living out patterns of relationships that we have seen our parents deal with us and their parents with them and their parents with them and, and so forth. And I think we just passed down some really not, not effective, but also not healthy ways of dealing with other people.

We teach our Children because we were taught that other people have the ability to control your emotions. And our emotions are how we connect with other people and form relationships. We form them, we connect and build through emotions. And so if those emotions don’t feel good and there’s even the best of relationships at some time or another are gonna have emotions that don’t feel good.

And we’re gonna be wondering what does this mean about me? We filter all the things that come in to our lives right through, through this lens of OK, what does this mean about me? And how am I safe? Am I OK? Does this person care about me? Do I matter to them? We filter the circumstances in our lives through that filter without realizing that we can give ourselves that worth.

And we can see that maybe the way that they’re reacting or the way that they’re acting has more to do with what’s going on within them than it does with us. So when we can take a step back and just see that I, I know who I am and I’m really strong and firm in the foundation of who I am and my own worth. I’m not gonna look to someone else to provide that for me and that includes my husband or my Children.

And I can also see myself as a worthy child of God, daughter of God. But I also when something is happening in my family that used to get me pretty upset or just wondering what’s happening here, you know, some, some type of situation that’s happening, that might be hard. I can also see that person from an outsider’s point of view.

I don’t know if that makes sense. But it lets me see this also, this wonderful, awesome child of God is struggling and that’s why they’re acting this way. It doesn’t necessarily mean something about me. But how can I love them through their hard time right now?

Speaker 1

You know, that’s, you’ve said so many important things here. I could focus on multiple but here, you know, part of my goal in creating this podcast. You know, it started with my spiritual journey and trying to normalize that questions and doubts are just part of this human experience. There’s no shame in it. There’s no, it doesn’t have to be a problem, right?

And I think a lot of times the reason why it is a problem is because of what’s been passed down. And you mentioned how a lot of the way we navigate our current, you know, currently navigate our family relationships has to do with these patterns that have been passed down, right? That our parents taught us that their parents taught them. And so it’s a curious thought to me, you know, I wonder if this fear of, you know, questioning or admitting to having concerns about the way to parent,

if it, if it veers from what has been established as quote, the best way or this is prescribed way. This is how we’ve always done it way. Does that make sense? So I wonder if that, that has something to do with it. We are perhaps we’re not even aware that we have this inhibition towards acknowledging questions, acknowledging that there are doubts coming up for us and we don’t want to be seen as the one that’s going rogue.

Speaker 2

I like that. Yeah, of course, because we are just wanting to fit in with the people around us. And when you start families res they reside around systems that have been in place for a long time. And when you start to change, you start, you automatically start to change the system and it can feel discombobulating, it can feel just ungrounded to the other people in the family because now all of a sudden my mom’s showing up differently, my sister is showing up differently.

I don’t know how to be in this relationship anymore because we used to have this dynamic and she’s changed it. So I don’t know where I stand with her and what and what to do right now. So it can be disconcerting when you start to change the system.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And you know what that brings up this, this thought to me. Like I wonder if sometimes that difference in the dynamic is often filtered as wrong or not. That’s, that’s the best word I can think of to describe it as not OK, as is almost like a moral value is assigned to it versus it’s just different, right?

Speaker 2

I think the more black and white our thinking is the more we lean towards what you just said, but also the more black and white our thinking is we have to have things, they have to be clearly cut right or wrong. It, that’s a pretty rigid life. And that was why I was very, very black and white while I raised my kids, which was why I struggled so much when I saw them beginning to question and struggle in their faith and, and wonder whether they, whether they were going to stay in the church.

I found a lot of pain trying to get out of that black and white thinking I now look at it like this was the like to be challenged in that way has been one of the greatest blessings for me to be able to see the beauty of having questions and how it leads you to more re resiliency, especially emotional resi resiliency in your life. You don’t have to have someone else stay the exact same way that they were 20 years ago.

In order to be ok with that relationship with them, you can allow them to change and it’s ok and you can also allow them to have questions and not freak out about it and not be requiring them to come back. And like, no, this is the road, the one road that our family walks on and I’m gonna pull you back here no matter what I have to do.

Right? I can allow you. I’m not so black and white in my thinking and I’m not reacting from fear. I can allow whoever it is to take this journey that they need to take, to figure out the things that they need to figure out. So I can be there and walk right alongside them and love them through that process. And it’s ok. It’s all OK.

Speaker 1

I’m curious to know your thoughts about this, you know, this idea that, we can be ok with where others are at. I wonder if sometimes that knee jerk reaction to feel fear or uneasiness or worry when we do see a family member doing things differently than what we expected. What we were used to is because I think sometimes our focus is so much on we need to do this, this and this so that we can get this result in the year after or in the next life versus this is one thing coaching has really

helped me with. And, and actually was, you know, in, in some of my, more difficult times earlier on, I felt very divinely guided to slow down to take things a day at a time or even an hour at a time or a minute at a time. And we both know the importance of being present, the present moment has so much to offer.

Yes, I think that focus on, you know, checking, kind of like a vending machine we can put this amount of coins in and then we’ll make sure that we get this result in the next life. Kind of tell me your thoughts about that.

Speaker 2

I think our church, we say that we are learning on this earth, right? So that we can achieve a certain thing afterwards or become one day become like God is the ultimate goal. I don’t know that the vending machine checklist actually has the power to produce a person who is like God.

Yeah. When my, my son came out to us, it’s been about five years and I had already had struggles with some of my other kids and, and when they came out to us, I, every time I talk about this, I get a little emotional because I just put myself back into that place.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I, I get it.

Speaker 2

I didn’t get out of bed for three days. And I remember I just that I can’t live my life like this. I can’t go on right. This is not gonna work for me. And I had my husband give me a blessing. I said I just, I need so much help right now. And he does. This is funny because every time we talk about this, he doesn’t even remember saying this in the blessing.

But it’s the only thing that I remember that he said through that blessing. And it was Heavenly Father wants you to know that you don’t have to worry about your kid, your children’s salvation. He has it taken care of. You don’t need to worry about it. What you should start focusing on is your own because I was so caught up in dragging my kids back to that path.

That story that I had written for them. Yeah, that I was losing myself. I was losing my kids. Since then when I started focusing on myself and coming to know who I am and like you said, being still, you can’t find out who you are without being still without take, slowing down and taking time, right? That has been the biggest gift to me, but it’s also been the biggest gift to my Children and my family because I, I’m still trying to figure out the whole LGBT thing. I don’t have answers,

nobody has answers and you have to be able to sit with some uncertainty and like, I don’t know what’s gonna happen, but I do know that I love my kids and I know that God loves my kids and I’m just here trying to be a better person every day and trying to love them better. And as I do that I’m producing or promoting a family that is way more connected and loving to each other than we ever had when we were trying to live that vending machine checklist.

Speaker 1

Yeah, there’s that theme of connection again. connected to self connected to our loved ones, our families. and I love what you said that quote vending machine style approach. You might, you might get a Coke, but you’re not going to get a person who a godlike person is genuinely like, gone through that struggle that wrestle that the personal growth that comes

from allowing yourself to be human, allowing yourself to feel whatever comes up to ask questions and, and acknowledge that they’re there in the first place. Absolutely.

Speaker 2

When we live that black and white, let’s just let me just go to maybe a hypothetical, my son comes out to me and I’m still stuck and determined to stay in that black and white thinking, well, if he, if our family is gonna be together after this life, then he’s just got to live and stay in the gospel, right? What damage would that have done to him and me trying to just pull him back all the time and me not accepting that that’s not the life that he wanted would have created such a big rift with

us that he wouldn’t have wanted to be a member of our family anymore. He probably would have severed that relationship. And this is a child who I had, I had several very spiritual experiences around his birth where I knew that he was sent to our family for a reason. And if I had stuck in that black and white thinking I would have severed that relationship, which I know was divinely appointed and divinely decided, right.

Who’s the one that’s not in the right there? That would have been me, my inability to accept that I have a son that’s gay and to accept him as he is, would have pushed him out of our family. And then I’m not fulfilling my role as a mother and, and unconditionally loving him. But I’m also not allowing myself to grow because when we allow uncertainty and allow ourselves to sit with the uncertain future and the anxiety of, well, we, we don’t know what’s gonna happen, that pro that

produces a human that can grow. But I would have stunted my own growth and I would have damaged my family if I had stuck with my, this is right and that is wrong kind of thinking.

Speaker 1

Yeah. It has been so much more freeing and I would say mentally healthy to shift to a place of, you know what? I am not really sure about that thing and be able to hold two things, one in each hand, you know, and, and you can still move forward, holding each the thing that maybe you don’t understand or you’re not sure about. But you have this over here that you do and you can be grounded in that. You know, for me, it always comes back to my relationship with the divine.

That’s, that’s where I can ground myself for sure. And I love what you said. If there’s one thing being a parent of an LGBT Q plus child has really taught me is my job is to love, period. Not to worry about what if, if or what their path looks like. And if it’s different from mine, like to me that’s actually turned into a beautiful thing. Like to me that shows how cognizant God is of our existence and what is needed for us in our own earthly journey.

Speaker 2

I like you to think of it as I took out that word or it’s this or that. And I put in an, and I can have this and this and that and they can both be there at the same time. I don’t have to have all the answers to know how I can live with both of those things at the same time. But I, I’m mature enough now that I can hold those two things without them having to, one of them having to push the other one out.

Speaker 1

Yeah, the word and very much a staple in my vocabulary. Yes. So, you’ve already shared with us how you’re your focus has evolved and your, your focus is you’re working with individuals who perhaps their child or maybe just another family member is having questions or even considering leaving the church. And I’m sure that a lot of questions then come up for that individual, whoever, whoever you’re working with. this is such an important space.

Speaker 2

There’s a lot of pain in this space.

Speaker 1

Yes. And I, I sometimes wonder if some of that pain comes from the current paradigm, the person has the current perspective the person has and either not being aware that that paradigm can shift and it will be OK that it shifts or like you’ve already mentioned, just really hanging on to that black and white thinking. I think a lot of folks don’t if they are in the black and white thinking often there’s the awareness piece is is missing. I don’t know.

Speaker 2

I think, I think so too. I think there’s, there’s a few things that factor into that. And first of all, our ego just plays such a huge portion of, of what you just said in the, and I say ego in the sense of like we just have these stories that we think this is the way my life is supposed to go and we hold tight to that story and don’t want to let go of it when it’s not coming to fruition and, and we try to force things back into that box, but we can do some damage to ourselves and to others when we try

to force and we don’t loosen that story a little bit and let and let other people be and live their lives outside of our story. But I think also if we’re not willing to shift the paradigm, it does rip families apart. And that’s why I call my podcast the coaching your Family Relationships podcast because this factor is so so directly into how we treat and think and feel about family members that are questioning, struggling leaving.

that even if we don’t think that it’s coming out, if we’re trying to carefully measure our words where it’s coming out how we feel and think one way or another, no matter how hard we’re trying to edit ourselves, right? And we, we map each other so well, especially when, when we’re in the same family, we just know how to map each other and we know without words what the other person is thinking.

So I just really feel very strongly about, let’s try to keep our families together. How do we navigate this space and navigate our own thoughts, feelings and actions around this person that we see is struggling. How do we switch from judgment, fear, control into a place where this person might feel heard and understood and loved and feels like this, this person here is walking alongside me in my journey.

And I think as a Christian, as a person who says that they follow Jesus Christ, that’s exactly what he did. If we’re not reflecting him in our own actions with those people who are struggling to find him in their lives. How in the world are they supposed to find him again? Right? If they’re not finding it through us, who say that we follow him, where are they going to find it.

Speaker 1

I think that’s why your work is just so, so important. Right? That, that’s exactly it. If, if they aren’t going to feel God’s love through you, where, where will they learn of it or how your work is, is so, so important and I, I truly believe that it contributes to creating a much more diversified community Zion.

If you wanna call it that, like it contributes to it, it creates spaces that maybe weren’t already there or were just waiting to be there and it helps to contribute towards creating safer spaces in general. So one last question for you, Tina, what, what does living beyond the shadow of doubt mean to you? Hm.

Speaker 2

Now, I need to think about that for a second.

Speaker 1

Looking beyond a shadow of a doubt while you’re thinking here’s one other fun, fun fact. While you’re thinking you were the first person that I shared my podcast name to other than my husband. Oh, really? I didn’t know that at the conference.

Speaker 2

That’s a privilege. Thank you. OK. For me to live beyond a shadow of a doubt means I don’t say I don’t even, even in a gospel sense. I have a lot of things that I really want to be true. I can’t say that I know that they’re true. And I think that that’s actually a really beautiful thing because it keeps me searching and it keeps me moving forward and it keeps me seeking a relationship with, with God, with myself.

How do I fit into this spiritual faith community? It keeps me moving forward instead of feeling like I’m really firmly sitting here and I know all that. I need to know when I, when I felt like I knew I wasn’t moving forward nearly as much as I am now in my own spirituality. And I think, I think that’s a huge gift and I don’t think I’d change it.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Agree. 100%. Agree. So good. So, so good. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you so much for joining me. Just a few more. For fun. These questions and you can just do one word, answers, maybe two words, but they’re just meant to be short. What is your favorite book?

Speaker 2

Hm. I, to my kids dismay, I don’t read nonfiction. I, well, I’m gonna put scriptures aside and tell you my favorite book. That’s not Scriptures. I love. Oh, man, it’s hard. You said this was going to be easy. This is not easy. It’s, it’s, it’s usually my favorite book at the moment is what it is. Ok. Then go with that. I knew my favorite book right now is Atlas of The Heart by Berne Brown. It’s a good one. It’s a reference guide that I, I just look in all the time.

Speaker 1

So many gems. Yes. Agreed. Are you an introvert or an extrovert?

Speaker 2

Introvert?

Speaker 1

Ok. A night owl or a morning LA.

Speaker 2

Oh, no, I’m a morning person through and through.

Speaker 1

I wish I was. I’m not, your favorite artist?

Speaker 2

Oh, my husband is an artist and so he is my favorite. I’m more than, more than, yeah.

Speaker 1

Painting music, drawing.

Speaker 2

Oh. Oh. Painting, yes. He’s an oil painter. His thumb.

Speaker 1

Ok. Love that. Do you have a celebrity crush?

Speaker 2

No. So, Bernay Brown is she, she’s a celebrity, isn’t she? That totally have like anything she says, I’ll be right there.

Speaker 1

That works. That works. Are you a Pepsi or Coke fan?

Speaker 2

I don’t drink soda.

Speaker 1

You know, everybody keeps answer. I’m gonna have to come up with a new question that that’s dating me. That’s so like eighties, nineties, right? Ok.

Speaker 2

And the furthest place you traveled, we took a trip to Rome and Florence five ish. So years ago that has to be the furthest that is, that’s on my bucket list. We went to check out all the art. This was an artist, remember? So, yeah, we went on an art tour, an art trip to go look at all the art in Italy.

Speaker 1

Sounds amazing. It was well, tell our listeners where they can find you, how they can connect with you and if there’s any, you know, things that offers that you have available.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I my website is Tina Gosney dot com. My Instagram and coaching are, well, Instagram is at Tina Gosney coaching and Facebook is Tina Gosney coaching. I don’t drop into social media a ton. I been, I was just thinking I need to do that a little bit more so I might start posting a little bit more. I do have a podcast that’s where I put most of my time and energy and it’s the coaching your family relationships podcast, which right now I’m in the middle of a super cool series or the January

February March. I don’t know when this episode’s gonna on your podcast will air, but it will still live on my podcast even if it’s that time. But I’m doing, it’s, it’s really based on a model. I’ve learned from Amy Giani who is my mentor and it’s no love and grow. First, we learn to know who we are. We have to learn to love and accept who we are and then we can begin to grow from where a space of love and acceptance.

And so I have January is focused on no, February is focused on love and March is focused on grow, but I have a free download that goes with each month. So I wanna go and go grab that free download. That is my present day. This is how you can connect with me and, and start to get into my work.

Speaker 2, Speaker 1

So, so all of that’s on your website that is on my website.

Speaker 2

It’s also my podcast.

Speaker 2, Speaker 1

I put links to those downloads in the pod in the show notes so you can find it on most of the major podcast platforms and I will include those in the show notes from today’s episode too.

Speaker 1

Thank you such a pleasure to have you on. Absolutely. Love to admire. I admire you so much.

Speaker 2, Speaker 1

Thanks again, my pleasure.